The San Fernando Valley - Getting Uglier Each Year? (Oxnard: for sale, rental)

[Charles]

Originally Posted by LALady

LA has the beautiful weather but I must admit that I envy the greenery of other states.

The north side of most foothills is usually covered in green shrubs, some chaparral, and oak. (California is one of the few places on earth that has east-west mountain ranges: Transverse Ranges.) If you ever fly into Burbank look at the striking differences between the south side of Oat Mountain and the north side. South: Chaparral and wild grass, north side: green brush and (I think) oak and shrubs.

Transverse Ranges - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, often all that greenery is accompanied by humidity and bugs.

[gypsystar]

Originally Posted by Aflyguy

And here I am assuming the Valley still looks like what they show on the Brady Bunch. Honestly.

Being from New York and recently planning a move to L.A., I know little about your city despite visiting there on business quite a few times. I've never been to the Valley but I wanted to see it in person out of curiosity while being in LA two yrs ago. I distinctly remember the hotel guy telling me, "don't worry you're not missing much, there's nothing there." I took this to mean it was a flat, boring, anywhere-in-america suburban type place. I NEVER remotely pictured the Valley as "rundown" and "dirty" or "dangerous." And I dont think the rest of America pictures it like that either (except if they have family or friends there who've told them otherwise).

It's really funny, because the only association I have of those communities is what I would see on game shows growing up. The contestant would announce to the host "Hi Bob, I'm Carrie and I'm from Van Nuys," or "I'm originally from Reseda but now I'm living in Sherman Oaks." They would almost always be some tanned, blonde beach girl with that annoying "Valley accent" or some cheery middle-aged soccer mom.

I guess it's a matter of time before the connotation of "the Valley" becomes as scary as that of "South Central", "Compton,"or "East L.A." It's not there yet, but the reputation is bound to catch up with reality.

That's too bad.

Well, I don't see it ever getting as bad as Compton in Valley, but I am sure it is nothing like what it used to be in the "glory days!" It really is too bad and I wish there was something that could be done to make it what it once was here.

[matt345]

Originally Posted by gypsystar

Well, I don't see it ever getting as bad as Compton in Valley, but I am sure it is nothing like what it used to be in the "glory days!" It really is too bad and I wish there was something that could be done to make it what it once was here.

Yeah. Compton, South Central, East LA...they're just flat out dangerous to even drive through. The worst parts of the valley are more "ugly and yucky" than anything else, although I'm not denying that you need to be cautious there too. There is no doubt a crime problem in Van Nuys and other central valley locations. It just hasn't reached the war zone level that you see in LA's worst ghettos. At least not yet and hopefully never will.

[OldTex]

We see the same things here in Texas.

As Latin American immigrants (and their offspring) dominate a residential area all of these changes seem to inevitably follow. There's little that can be done about it at this point.

[Winston Smith]

Originally Posted by OldTex

We see the same things here in Texas.

As Latin American immigrants (and their offspring) dominate a residential area all of these changes seem to inevitably follow. There's little that can be done about it at this point.

I don't think the issue is ethnic or racial. It's economic. Gangs, crime, poverty and misery in L.A. or the San Fernando Valley is not limited to anyone because of race or ethnicity. These are "equal-opportunity" forces. In fact, some gangs, such as MS-13, have their roots with immigrants from Latin America with no gang or crime tendencies UNTIL they came to the mean streets of L.A. and found no other way to survive under the worst of American social conditions. So it's unfair to suggest that problems follow when Latin Americans arrive -- when, in the case of L.A., the gangs and gang culture were already here as American inventions, festering in a city disinterested to deal with it seriously (at the time, anyway, mid 80s).

This article aired on the radio just yesterday (3/10): NPR: South L.A. Gang Violence Claims Young Victims

[OldTex]

Since I'm not a Los Angeleno (much less a Californian) I'll confine myself to the following response and let y'all sort out my comments as you will:

Originally Posted by cre8

I don't think the issue is ethnic or racial. It's economic. Gangs, crime, poverty and misery in L.A. or the San Fernando Valley is not limited to anyone because of race or ethnicity. These are "equal-opportunity" forces. In fact, some gangs, such as MS-13, have their roots with immigrants from Latin America with no gang or crime tendencies UNTIL they came to the mean streets of L.A. and found no other way to survive under the worst of American social conditions. So it's unfair to suggest that problems follow when Latin Americans arrive -- when, in the case of L.A., the gangs and gang culture were already here as American inventions, festering in a city disinterested to deal with it seriously (at the time, anyway, mid 80s).

This article aired on the radio just yesterday (3/10): NPR: South L.A. Gang Violence Claims Young Victims

I have been witness to rural poverty in isolated pockets of the American North (like in the Dakotas) which is so great that towns are still limited to dirt roads and boardwalk (you have to see it to believe it). But even in those stark conditions, the relatively impoverished youth (who are descendants of German and Norweigan immigrants) don't turn to gang violence, graffiti, or other related forms of cultural depravity. Just about anyone can walk down the streets of some of our most economically depressed communities in the American North and still feel completely safe! Which is more then what can be said for more then a few suburbs in either Texas or (judging by the comments in this thread) Southern California.

Honestly, I haven't been able to make up my mind as to whether the failures of many Latin American immigrants are rooted in either ethnic or cultural considerations. But I do know (as an Ol' Texan) that these people are fleeing from the mess they created in Latin America and are slowly bringing their problems here (gangs, kidnappings, disorder, etc.).

[Winston Smith]

Originally Posted by OldTex

Since I'm not a Los Angeleno (much less a Californian) I'll confine myself to the following response and let y'all sort out my comments as you will:

I have been witness to rural poverty in isolated pockets of the American North (like in the Dakotas) which is so great that towns are still limited to dirt roads and boardwalk (you have to see it to believe it). But even in those stark conditions, the relatively impoverished youth (who are descendants of German and Norweigan immigrants) don't turn to gang violence, graffiti, or other related forms of cultural depravity. Just about anyone can walk down the streets of some of our most economically depressed communities in the American North and still feel completely safe! Which is more then what can be said for more then a few suburbs in either Texas or (judging by the comments in this thread) Southern California.

Honestly, I haven't been able to make up my mind as to whether the failures of many Latin American immigrants are rooted in either ethnic or cultural considerations. But I do know (as an Ol' Texan) that these people are fleeing from the mess they created in Latin America and are slowly bringing their problems here (gangs, kidnappings, disorder, etc.).

So let the sorting begin.

I don't know about the Dakotas (there's a north and a south, right? ) nor much about Norwegians and Germans living there. But I do know about Oslo, Norway, and Hamburg, Germany -- where graffiti is so thick in places that people don't even pay it any attention. Oslo is actually considering a move to legalize graffiti, the problem is that out of hand. And crime in those Norwegian and German cities is quite bad in some parts. The irony of a lot of this crime and graffiti is that it's copycat behavior from what the youth there learn of American culture from song (eh-hem, rap), TV and film.

But back to Latin America and L.A.'s San Fernando Valley. The problems experienced in the lands south of the border are in fact NOT always self induced, or a "mess they created in Latin America." In the case of El Salvador and the flood of immigrants arriving in L.A. in the 80s, these were people fleeing political unrest and a civil war at home -- a civil war that the U.S. was deeply involved in. (The U.S. has a long history of meddling in Latin America.) MS-13 was thus born out of that situation back here in L.A. per the reasons mentioned in my earlier post. This is an American problem. So for every finger "we" point at "them" there is at least one pointing back at "us."

[BreaOC]

Ok, the Texan poster is incorrect in more than just what cre8 mentioned. The Dakota's hardly have areas that still have dirt streets and board walks, unless you are speaking of the ghost towns the interstates forgot. Even California's remote areas have gravel roads. As for every other village, town, and city in the Dakota's with over a 100 people, each has asphalt or cement roads, power, water, satellite, SUV's, internet, cell phones, etc... Even the farmers that live at poverty level are content people, or they wouldn't continue farming (which, by the way, is sad that the farmers that feed use are paid basically dirt). That was a terrible analogy to use and it would appear the poster is clearly misinformed in both points they attempted.

[OldTex]

BreaOc,

I was referring to isolated, rural pockets of the Dakotas where economic poverty has preserved certain historical features. It goes without saying that the vast majority of people in the American North are living a modern life.

My family owns a ranch in the Dakotas, so I am not speaking out of ignorance here.

Cre8,

Clearly, there are dangerous, filthy parts of Europe and there are safe, beautiful parts of Latin America.

My point was that stark economic poverty doesn't excuse (nor need it generate) cultural depravity.

[amc760]

And as far as immigrants fleeing the problem "they created"..

if you see the people illegally immigrating to America, most of them are of indian descent.

Not exactly the people who hold the power in Latin America. The people in powerful places down there tend to be of European descent. indians in Latin America, like here, are considered undesirables and live in extreme poverty.

They immigrate here to live in a slightly better extreme poverty.

The problem lies with the upper class in Latin America.