Creole or Cajun??? (New Orleans: middle school, move to, baptist)

[mhounit]

Originally Posted by Tritone

The meaning might be convoluted and subjective today, but I think historically there is a right answer.

The way the term was originally used includes "cajuns"(the exiles from acadia). "Louisiana creole" essentially means all the people and the culture native to Louisiana before the Louisiana Purchase and their descendants. That meaning is well documented.

Yes , historically there is a right answer . That's obvious . But what's also obvious is that there is no generally accepted answer . If there were , this thread would have been over as soon as it started .

[WWarthog]

Originally Posted by Louisiana'sLegend2

I dont know much about it being a "N. Louisiana native", but I visited Opelousas alot and the people say creole people have the biggest influence customs and culture wise. Maybe its just that Cajuns outnumber the creoles and weren't cajuns here first? The creole are the ones with the indian/african culture as well as the french? I dont know......... speak on it everybody.

No. Elsewhere "creole" typically means "mixed-race", but not so in Louisiana. Creole means those who settled in Louisiana directly from France (so "they were here first"). Cajun are those forced out of Acadiana (now Nova Scotia) by the English. who reached Louisiana later. Creoles thus owned the best land, and the Cajuns had to settle for marginal areas. Typically, Creoles owned large acreages (plantations) along the Mississippi River and along navigable bayous.

[annie_himself]

I've never heard of Creole meaning someone directly from France. It's always mix race.

[selogic]

Originally Posted by annie_himself

I've never heard of Creole meaning someone directly from France. It's always mix race.

I believe it was John Folse that I heard explain it that way . I'm not agreeing or disagreeing but it made sense at the time .

[annie_himself]

Originally Posted by selogic

I believe it was John Folse that I heard explain it that way . I'm not agreeing or disagreeing but it made sense at the time .

There are many definitions I've heard over the years but that's the first. Isn't Creole synonymous with mulatto?

[Jimbo_1]

The original definition of Creole was for people born in Louisiana of French and Spanish heritage back in the 1700s and 1800s (so likely 100% white). It was used to differentiate them from European born and recent Americans coming from the Northeast of English background who were moving to Louisiana. During that time there were other terms like Creoles of Color and Free People of Color that included people with mixed African and European heritage. Overtime Creole seemed to morph to mean people of obvious mixed African and European backgrounds (typically French or Spanish and accompanying lighter skin tones and Catholicism) and that is the common meaning of Creole nowadays. The other definition would become a little pointless nowadays because it would basically include the great majority of white people in South Louisiana as Creole since most are native born Louisianians of French or Spanish background. Though, today, it can also possibly be used to describe how someone is descended from colonial era French heritage versus later waves of immigration.

A perfect example is how Canal Street was said to divide the Creole section of New Orleans from the American section in the early to mid 1800s. Creole meaning the French and Spanish Catholic decedents (including the Francophone people of color) from the English speaking Protestant Americans who were arriving from the rest of the country.

[Sassybluesy]

Originally Posted by Bel et Intelligent

I have a tradional cajun last name (Prejean) but I have creole blood going through my vains, sometimes I feel like a big pot of gumbo lol.. Creole music plays a big part in the lafayette area, and even though its not main stream in America, the music is making alot of noise in the world of music. From the Cajun Dome to Cajun food the name really sales itself, I think Creole will always take a back seat to Cajun culture. I dont mind that as long as the creole culture doesnt get lost.. Here is the national flag for the French Creole of Louisiana

I'm a huge fan of Louisiana in general, and a huge fan of Zydeco (first) and Cajun music (second).


Zydeco = creole
Cajun = Cajun


I have a couple of friends in the music industry there.


I'd move to Louisiana just so I could hear the music live every night. LOL

[Desert kid]

I'm sorry folks. But give me a little Coonass Cajun gal from Lafayette anyday.

[annie_himself]

Originally Posted by Jimbo_1

The original definition of Creole was for people born in Louisiana of French and Spanish heritage back in the 1700s and 1800s (so likely 100% white). It was used to differentiate them from European born and recent Americans coming from the Northeast of English background who were moving to Louisiana. During that time there were other terms like Creoles of Color and Free People of Color that included people with mixed African and European heritage. Overtime Creole seemed to morph to mean people of obvious mixed African and European backgrounds (typically French or Spanish and accompanying lighter skin tones and Catholicism) and that is the common meaning of Creole nowadays. The other definition would become a little pointless nowadays because it would basically include the great majority of white people in South Louisiana as Creole since most are native born Louisianians of French or Spanish background. Though, today, it can also possibly be used to describe how someone is descended from colonial era French heritage versus later waves of immigration.

A perfect example is how Canal Street was said to divide the Creole section of New Orleans from the American section in the early to mid 1800s. Creole meaning the French and Spanish Catholic decedents (including the Francophone people of color) from the English speaking Protestant Americans who were arriving from the rest of the country.

Thanks for the breakdown! Well said.

Originally Posted by Desert kid

I'm sorry folks. But give me a little Coonass Cajun gal from Lafayette anyday.

A coonass from Laffy? Go further south lol.

[bpollen]

Originally Posted by Mzurie

In regard to settling the area, men, women, and children forcibly brought to the area from Mali, Senegal, what is now the Congo, and the Caribbean - they were quite instrumental in settling the area. These individuals arrived before the Acadians by about 50 years.

It's not my intent to compare. It's my intent to remind ourselves that a lot of our ancestors have paid their dues for us to be Americans today. From Diary of Miss Jane Pittman, by Louisiana author (of New Roads) Ernest J. Gaines, spoken by Ned, who used to be enslaved, to other young black men:

...your people plowed this earth, your people chopped down the trees, your people built the roads and built the levees. These same people is now buried in this earth, and their bones’s fertilizing this earth.”

“…. I’m much American as any man; …. America is for red, white, and black men. The red man roamed all over this land long before we got here. The black man cultivated this land from ocean to ocean with his back. The white man brought tools and guns. America is for all of us,” he said, “and all of America is for all of us.”

There are a lot of folks of color who self-identify in South Louisiana as Creole. There's pride of heritage and contribution in that identification. It has a socio-historical meaning for those who call themselves Creole.

It's not uncommon for me to hear this self-identification minimized, discounted by others. Me, I think it's respectful to be called what I want to be called. Not for others to judge if I fit their definition of same.

I think everyone knows that the country is a melting pot, each group of people contributing to the areas they settled in. But the French and Spanish are primarily responsible for settling and growing Louisiana.

The Native Americans were there first, and many of the geographic names were retained. Blacks settled there or were brought there, and contributed much in the way of cuisine and music. The Haitian creoles likewise contributed much. There were even a few Germans thrown into the mix. But the Spanish are responsible for much of the architecture and organization of the cities and towns, while the French contributed the legal system, as well as architecture, cuisine, and music.

I think of the creoles as being concentrated in the New Orleans area and of mixed blood. It is the Haitians who immigrated and then mixed with the locals in the New Orleans area. But it may be broader than that.

And of course, the jazz being born in New Orleans comes in large part from the African Americans, who gave birth to the blues and jazz, as they say. But it is a blight on the state that blacks were used as slaves and later indentured servants, which helped Louisiana become successful at farming. But all that was after Louisiana was settled by the Spanish and French.

My family has been in SW Louisiana since the 1700s. A long time. It's a shame they didn't move away, broaden their horizons. I don't think it's good for descendants to stay in the same area generation after generation.