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In the late 60s/early 70s my parents thought their neighborhood by the Colliseum was "going down the tubes" because there were more dogs barking and a few domestic disturbance calls (even though there were really no minorities of any kind moving in). People can be very sensitive to even a hint of neighborhood change. Now it seems like all of the places they rented in the 60s and 70s are considered undesirable by Madison standards (the aforementioned place off of Hammersley, Sherman Terrace, and near the Colliseum). But I don't think any of these areas are like Allied Drive, Badger Road, or the neighborhood formerly known as Broadway Simpson. And in Chicago people would consider a three-block buffer zone from any low-income enclave a safe distance, while people in Madison want to be at least five miles away.
Madison isn't Chicago though, and so the points you make don't surprise me.
People were definitely aware of gangs in Madison ten years ago. But the people who think crime is a growing issue in Madison just need to take a chill pill and realize that a few isolated incidents don't constitute a trend. Heck, even a couple of rough years in a row could be anomalous, and don't constitute a trend.
Honestly, not to be curt but why would I take advice from someone who doesn't even live in my city?
I lived near Hammersly and Prarie in the 1970s... I'm confused by your statement... Are you saying there are shootings there now? I worked on a roads project at Whitney and Hammersly in the 1990s and it was getting a little bit trashier, but was still a very safe area. Has it gotten worse? I'll have to check it out next time I'm in town. The last time I went by the old house (probably four years ago) I did notice that the paint job hadn't been maintained as well.
There is lots of crime happening in this area. It is not the "nice" place to move into anymore, which makes it undesirable. It has been batted around in our media for some time that it is a troubled area.
Is Main dangerous? Someone mentioned Main as being a bad place, but I was there when we were in the city last week. We even looked at some apartments on that street (there are a lot of them). Is it because it's a few blocks from the capital building? I'll admit, when we visited the capital building I saw 3 homeless people, and 1 of them was selling old newspapers...
Is Main dangerous? Someone mentioned Main as being a bad place, but I was there when we were in the city last week. We even looked at some apartments on that street (there are a lot of them). Is it because it's a few blocks from the capital building? I'll admit, when we visited the capital building I saw 3 homeless people, and 1 of them was selling old newspapers...
I would not say that Main (and Doty) are dangerous, but they are just a little seedier than most of the rest of the student ghetto.
Last edited by Lookout Kid; 08-26-2009 at 12:01 PM..
It's so nice when someone (gold*dust1) goes through and posts a bunch of snarky replies to each and every one of my posts on a thread. I was born in Madison, and lived there in the 70s-80s, again in the 90s, and briefly in the early 00s. I basically consider it my home town. I have a lot of family and friends there and frequently spend time there. I am also a bit of a crime stat buff, and have looked at the numbers (they are readily available here on City-Data if you want to look back ten years).
Do you need a statistics lesson to learn the difference between isolated incidents and trends? Madison's crime is NOT rising in any statistically significant manor. Isolated incidents of violent crime have long been happening in Madison (heck, a brother of one of my parent's friends was gunned down randomly on Park Street in the 70s), and there has not been any significant decrease in safety--in spite of what many people are perceiving. Crime is an issue in Madison, but it is not as much of an issue there compared to other cities the size of Madison.
It's so nice when someone (gold*dust1) goes through and posts a bunch of snarky replies to each and every one of my posts on a thread. I was born in Madison, and lived there in the 70s-80s, again in the 90s, and briefly in the early 00s. I basically consider it my home town. I have a lot of family and friends there and frequently spend time there. I am also a bit of a crime stat buff, and have looked at the numbers (they are readily available here on City-Data if you want to look back ten years).
Do you need a statistics lesson to learn the difference between isolated incidents and trends? Madison's crime is NOT rising in any statistically significant manor. Isolated incidents of violent crime have long been happening in Madison (heck, a brother of one of my parent's friends was gunned down randomly on Park Street in the 70s), and there has not been any significant decrease in safety--in spite of what many people are perceiving. Crime is an issue in Madison, but it is not as much of an issue there compared to other cities the size of Madison.
What if I thought your posts were snarky? In the *mind* of the beholder dear. I think Chelito said it well in their last post in this thread...sums up my feelings to a T.
I find your statistics rant to be rather rude and don't find it worth my while to respond. Have a great day
People from all over the country read this forum to get relocation information. It's fine to discuss the areas of Madison that are a bit rough, but it's also fine to add the qualifier "rough by Madison standards" so the issue doesn't get confused. I would not move my family to one of these areas, but a single male looking for cheap rent might not have such a terrible time if they realize what they are getting into. There is not a large "ghetto" in Madison like you might find in other cities of this size--just slightly rough spots here and there.
Crime is really not rising in Madison, but hysteria about crime sure seems to be. Some areas are getting worse (Whitney and Hammersley) while others are getting better (Willy Street). Chelito talks about the Madison from 20 years ago, but that Madison had most of the same issues as the Madison of today. It's peoples' perceptions that have changed. In the 1960s a dorm mate of my mother's was sexually assaulted in broad daylight on Bascom Hill. In the 1970s a brother of a family friend was randomly gunned down in a parking lot near Madison General Hospital (now Meriter). One of my friends was assualted in the vestibule of her building in the mid-nineties. Incidents happen in Madison--even serious ones. But they are less common in Madison than in most other cities of 200,000 people or more.
That's shocking to me. It was still very decent as late as of the late 90s, though there was that terrible gasoline attack on a B Bus right at the intersection of Prarie and Hammersley (back when the buses still had lettered routes instead of numbered ones). But that had nothing to do with the neighborhood conditions. It was a mentally ill person who boarded the bus elsewhere.
It is, I thought you knew all about Madisons crime scene!
But of course, a bad neighborhood in Madison is never really that bad. I'd actually be more worried walking around 500 E. Doty or Main after midnight. This is your opinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookout Kid
I lived near Hammersly and Prarie in the 1970s... I'm confused by your statement... Are you saying there are shootings there now? I worked on a roads project at Whitney and Hammersly in the 1990s and it was getting a little bit trashier, but was still a very safe area. Has it gotten worse? I'll have to check it out next time I'm in town. The last time I went by the old house (probably four years ago) I did notice that the paint job hadn't been maintained as well.
Again, I thought you knew about crime stats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookout Kid
People were definitely aware of gangs in Madison ten years ago. But the people who think crime is a growing issue in Madison just need to take a chill pill and realize that a few isolatedincidents don't constitute a trend. Heck, even a couple of rough years in a row could be anomalous, and don't constitute a trend.
This statement really bothers me. Of course crime is a growing "issue" in Madison. You would have to be naive not to think it is an issue. I form an opinion based from facts and law enforcement etc., the real people in the trenches here, as to the severity or lack there of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookout Kid
People from all over the country read this forum to get relocation information. It's fine to discuss the areas of Madison that are a bit rough, but it's also fine to add the qualifier "rough by Madison standards" so the issue doesn't get confused. I would not move my family to one of these areas, but a single male looking for cheap rent might not have such a terrible time if they realize what they are getting into. There is not a large "ghetto" in Madison like you might find in other cities of this size--just slightly rough spots here and there.
This was asked and answered early on in the thread, and has already been clarified in earlier threads.
Crime is really not rising in Madison, but hysteria about crime sure seems to be. Some areas are getting worse (Whitney and Hammersley) while others are getting better (Willy Street). Chelito talks about the Madison from 20 years ago, but that Madison had most of the same issues as the Madison of today. It's peoples' perceptions that have changed. In the 1960s a dorm mate of my mother's was sexually assaulted in broad daylight on Bascom Hill. In the 1970s a brother of a family friend was randomly gunned down in a parking lot near Madison General Hospital (now Meriter). One of my friends was assualted in the vestibule of her building in the mid-nineties. Incidents happen in Madison--even serious ones. But they are less common in Madison than in most other cities of 200,000 people or more.
What hysteria????? Who was hysterical in this thread? I made the main points I wanted to convey in post 5, which the OP acknowledged and we then came to a meeting of the minds, so to speak. Then it took on a life of it's own as different people interjected their thoughts and opinions. There was never any hysteria. Seems like you may want to take the pill you suggest others need.
Last edited by gold*dust1; 08-27-2009 at 08:12 PM..
I disagree that crime is the same as it was 20 years ago, Madison is much larger now and a look in the daily paper, newscasts or police statistics show that crime is a much more common occurence. Therefore, people rightfully perceive the increase in crime. It isn't just imagined up in their heads.
Local crime is not hyped in general (by the media), if anything, a single incident is over analyzed and over reported to the point that no one wants to hear about it and tunes it out. Stories are certainly not sensationalized either like you see in other cities. Madison police are very tight lipped and most crimes here are solved quickly. Nonetheless, you will nowadays hear about armed robberies, assaults and the less ocassional murders and shootings moreso than you did 20 years ago.
I highly doubt that in a smaller Madison from 20 years back, people weren't able to notice or perceive the "same" amount of crime we are seeing today, that is simply not true in my opinion. I lived here 20 years ago and crime was just less common altogether. What happens is that some people think that same Madison still exists because they haven't been a victim of increased crime or they don't see a massive ghetto, so they think Madison is the same old place it used to be.
The only nod towards accepting an increase in crime from people who live in the past comes from the comment "at lease our crime is still not bad compared to that of other cities." To me that seems like they are trying to diminish the city's problems and not acknowledging or addressing them properly. I think it is great that people here love the city and defend it, that is what makes it so liveable, but you have to get to a point and realize that the writing is on the wall, and that by acknowledging this doesn't mean the city still isn't great, or in a downward spiral, it has just *changed.*
No one here ever implied or said Madison was evolving into a Newark, New Jersey. The thing is, Madison used to be an *unbelieveably* safe city with very random and rare acts of violence. Those random acts still ocurr infrequently, but there are more robberies, assualts, drug related problems, community problems, etc. than there used to be. Gangs are an issue, especially if you live in "one of the few rough areas." I also believe that the posters who are in denial about the current situation do not have children in the local public schools, they are very telling and the schools' problems are logically Madison's problems after 3PM and on weekends.
Hopefully, people who read these posts from other areas will conclude that what seems "too good to be true, probably is," and I don't think posts diminishing the crime situation is doing them a favor. People want to hear it how it is, not how Money Magazine ranked us 15 years ago, for that they can check out the Chamber of Commerce's accalades. And just because you admit that Madison has changed and crime has worsened, it doesn't mean the city is a sesspool and breeding ground for the Crips and Bloods and that it's heyday is over. The ridiculously low crime rates from 20 years ago and back were not sustainable for an American city with a metro population near half a million people. As the area grows, new influences come in and the place changes. So why do people still insist on arguing these points? It doesn't make Madison any less liveable for them, we are just sharing the other side of the coin, since it is already VERY clear that Madison is a safe community overall.
Last edited by Chelito23; 08-28-2009 at 08:45 AM..
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