Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Maine
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-26-2011, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Northern Maine
10,428 posts, read 18,686,915 times
Reputation: 11563

Advertisements

Nearly 40 years ago, Maine entered a time of "endarkenment". It is the opposite of enlightenment. Everybody likes clean air and clean water. This is not what today's environmental movement is about. The average citizen wants to be responsible in how we manage our land and natural resources. The reason the environmental industry as a whole likes Maine so much is that we who own it have taken such good care of it for the last few centuries.

What the average citizen does not realize is the agenda that drives the environmental industry. Here is a brief summary of what they want for us:

Global Sustainability requires: "the deliberate quest of poverty . . . reduced resource consumption . . . and set levels of mortality control."
Professor Maurice King

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule."
H. L. Mencken

“A year is about one-fifth of the time we have left if we are going to preserve any kind of quality in our world."
Garrett de Bell (1970)

"We reject the idea of private property."
Peter Berle, President of the National Audobon Society

"The necessary consequence of an egalitarian program is the decidedly inegalitarian creation of a ruthless power elite."
M. N. Rothbard

"Isn't the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn't it our responsibility to bring that about?"
Maurice Strong, Head of the 1992 Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro

“Economic growth is not the cure, it is the disease.”
Maurice Strong

"It is easy to be conspicuously 'compassionate' if others are being forced to pay the cost."
M. N. Rothbard

"'Protecting the Environment' is a ruse. The goal is the political and economic subjugation of most men by the few, under the guise of preserving nature."
J. H. Robbins

"Christianity is our foe. If animal rights is to succeed, we must destroy the Judeo-Christian Religious tradition."
Peter Singer, the "Father of Animal Rights"

“The collective needs of non-human species must take precedence over the needs and desires of humans."
Dr. Reed F. Noss, The Wildlands Project

“Cannibalism is a radical but realistic solution to the problem of overpopulation."
Lyall Watson, The Financial Times, 15 July 1995

"If I were reincarnated, I would wish to be returned to Earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels."
Prince Phillip, World Wildlife Fund

"Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs."

Maine is about to turn away from these very worst and most extreme environmental goals. We will return to responsible use of our natural resources and Maine families will become part of the solution again.

In 1940 Maine had 6.25 million acres of pasture and cultivated ground. Today we have just over a million. In my lifetime Maine has gained an average of 77,000 acres of forest each year. Yes, "gained". Those who claim we are losing our forests just plain lie. Those who claim we are losing our forests don't want us to reclaim some of our pastures, meadows and cultivated ground top raise food. Those who claim we are losing our forests have allowed the meadow lark population to be decimated as we lost five million acres of habitat.

Our people leave at the age of 25 or 30 to raise their families where they have better economic opportunity. They come home at the age of 55 when the kids are out of college. They want to be able to build a home in Northern Maine. The environmental industry calls that "sprawl". We need some of that "sprawl" to grow our economy agin. These returning Mainers bring valuable experience home with them. We need them. They are not the enemy.

Maine is about to return to an age of enlightenment. It's a good thing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-26-2011, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,791,864 times
Reputation: 24863
I live in the very conservative State immediately west of Maine. Our governor may be a Democrat but he is no liberal or tree hugger. We have a lot of State owned land but with less regulation. The result has been very little development of the forest product or any other industry. Our population North of the Notch has been steadily decreasing as the paper mills have closed and other industries have moved across the western ocean. The only thing left is the entertainment industry in the form of winter sports and summer hiking. Both of these require a suitable environment that does not include clear cut or mined out wastelands.

I do not believe the regulations on the Maine Forest have had any effect what so ever on job growth in the Maine North woods. The simple fact is nobody wants the wood or the wood products enough to make more jobs available. That type of economy is not going to come back. What people apparently do want is the forest woodland or wilderness experience. This, as in New Hampshire, requires intact forest. The most important thing about the forest is the existence of the forest.

My estimate of the situation is your governor is simply letting the Heritage Foundation or the Cato institute write his proposals in line with the tenants of crony capitalism and unrestrained greed. These proposals place economic correctness over long term success and local prosperity. I think the likeliest result of these proposals will be the devastation of local small town businesses as Wally World and Home Despot replace local businesses with artificially low process. Once the competition is eliminated the prices will rise to above the previous levels as these predacious corporations maximize their, and not the community, profits. Another likely event, if the forests become available for sale, is their purchase by the Saudis and/or the Chinese. Then the people of Maine will have to pay for using what had previously been free as well as tolerate the clear cutting or mining of any resources available. These proposals are designed to let foreign big money investors steal the North Woods from the citizens of Maine.

Please note I did not mention any of the environmental losses likely to be caused by eliminating the current restrictions. Polluted water is a direct result of over cutting a forest or piling up mine tailings. Salmon do not thrive in polluted water. Salmon fishermen take their money to where the salmon are not where they were. Tourists, with very few exceptions, do not visit to look at a devastated environment. They take their money and go somewhere the environment is still intact. The proposed changes will not be good for either Maine’s economy or environment. It will only be good for the greedy and careless investors from across the oceans.

I suggest the anti environmentalists be careful of what they wish for lest they actually get it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2011, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,791,864 times
Reputation: 24863
Northern Maine Land Man - Your version of "enlightment" is about as viable as a old fashioned flash bulb. Excess of light now and darkness in the future.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2011, 08:42 AM
 
Location: God's Country, Maine
2,054 posts, read 4,579,827 times
Reputation: 1305
The recreational fishing in my neck of the woods thrived during the logging practices of old, when the logs travelled downstream and were boomed across the lake by steamship. That practice was discontinued in the 70's and fishing has been on the decline ever since. Ice out was the call to put your boat in at places like Spencer Bay, famous for early season salmon fishing. Folks would come up by rail, coach and automobile.

The fleet of steamships from the Coburn Company plied the lake, booming logs and ferrying sportsmen and women to the numerous sporting camps and hotels that surrounded the shoreline. Kineo Hotel boasted seating for 600. The region was full of economic activity. We had saw mills and a plywood mill.

Hunting and trapping was also a mainstay. Guides would bring in their sports for amazing hunting adventures. The air services were always busy shuttling in and out of camps in the remote areas.

I can take you into all the old farms run by the logging companies, used to feed and house their loggers. There are old railroad depots, remains of hotels, hunting and trapping camps, crashed planes, trains, Lombard Steamers, and if you are really adventurous, sunken steamships to explore. The remains of two fish hatcheries are easy to follow if you know where they are. Many of these are seemingly out in the middle of nowhere, but were in fact, parts of a large booming economy that once thrived in the North Maine Woods.

When citizens are unleashed to practice free market capitalism with minimal regulation, the great State of Maine might return to its former glory. Capitalism and recreation are not mutually exclusive! The citizens and businesses of Maine were once, and will now be allowed again, to maintain stewardship of their own property.

We refuse to be pushed around by the Progressive agenda any longer. The ownership of private property, including real estate is the cornerstone of the American Dream.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2011, 08:57 AM
 
Location: 3.5 sq mile island ant nest next to Canada
3,036 posts, read 5,888,747 times
Reputation: 2171
So I guess a few on here are against Restore? (poke the bear, poke the bear). That, IMHO, and the like are definate problems as they go too far. A little "middle of the road" environmental stewardship is what is needed not the "over the top" on both sides of the spectrum.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2011, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,468 posts, read 61,406,816 times
Reputation: 30414
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredtinbender View Post
So I guess a few on here are against Restore? (poke the bear, poke the bear). That, IMHO, and the like are definate problems as they go too far. A little "middle of the road" environmental stewardship is what is needed not the "over the top" on both sides of the spectrum.
I had the opportunity of listening to a 'Maine Guide' giving a talk about Restore and why Maine Guides support and fund it. The vision that he shared was very well received by most of the people present at the event. His vision for Maine includes no human habitation, no roads, no utilities, not just for the 'North Woods' region but hopefully one day for the majority of Maine's townships.

I guess that I learned a lot about the 'Maine Guides' organization and core beliefs.

Personally I do not agree with their agenda, but it was nice to hear their agenda explained in such a manner.

I own one property in Maine; my SIL owns another property that I manage for her. I get things in the mail from various state agencies and she gets stuff as well. Everything she gets, she forwards to me. I find it really amazing that out-of-state land owners get completely different stuff, then Maine residents get. She was the one who got LURCs last draft for their newest CLEP [long range plan], it was not sent to Maine residents, but sent to out-of-state land owners. The vision of the future held by LURC largely mirrors that of the 'Maine Guides' [no human habitation, no roads, no utilities, no petroleum devices, a primitive use-only region].
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2011, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Way South of the Volvo Line
2,788 posts, read 8,015,308 times
Reputation: 2846
I will agree that the conservation movement in Maine can be extreme in their visions of an environment free of human touch, but I'l be glad when Mainers attack the real enemies of growth instead of demonizing the environmentalists. Maine needs to provide cheap energy, better communications and better transportation infrastructure to bring down the usual overhead costs that send industry scurrying. Bring on an east-west highway, open up freight and passenger rail, and invest in clean energy production with all the resources we are so blessed with: water, wind, sun, and earth.
We can be poised for prosperous future with some careful investment in innovation while still preserving our natural world for all to enjoy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2011, 09:48 AM
 
Location: 3.5 sq mile island ant nest next to Canada
3,036 posts, read 5,888,747 times
Reputation: 2171
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
I had the opportunity of listening to a 'Maine Guide' giving a talk about Restore and why Maine Guides support and fund it. The vision that he shared was very well received by most of the people present at the event. His vision for Maine includes no human habitation, no roads, no utilities, not just for the 'North Woods' region but hopefully one day for the majority of Maine's townships.

I guess that I learned a lot about the 'Maine Guides' organization and core beliefs.

Personally I do not agree with their agenda, but it was nice to hear their agenda explained in such a manner.

I own one property in Maine; my SIL owns another property that I manage for her. I get things in the mail from various state agencies and she gets stuff as well. Everything she gets, she forwards to me. I find it really amazing that out-of-state land owners get completely different stuff, then Maine residents get. She was the one who got LURCs last draft for their newest CLEP [long range plan], it was not sent to Maine residents, but sent to out-of-state land owners. The vision of the future held by LURC largely mirrors that of the 'Maine Guides' [no human habitation, no roads, no utilities, no petroleum devices, a primitive use-only region].

Can we pick who has to go?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2011, 09:58 AM
 
Location: West Virginia
16,677 posts, read 15,676,579 times
Reputation: 10929
Quote:
Originally Posted by spcroft View Post
Oh give me a break. The Enviros??? Really? As if there is some evil cabal of environmentalists just waiting to take control over your land. How lame. How myopic. .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
..... I do not believe the regulations on the Maine Forest have had any effect what so ever on job growth in the Maine North woods. .....
You are both wasting your efforts in this forum (IMO).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2011, 10:09 AM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,638 posts, read 6,169,592 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredtinbender View Post
So I guess a few on here are against Restore? (poke the bear, poke the bear). That, IMHO, and the like are definate problems as they go too far. A little "middle of the road" environmental stewardship is what is needed not the "over the top" on both sides of the spectrum.
I agree. Likewise, we have to be careful what we purchase and 'demand' so-to-speak.

Technology and recycling has all but eliminated paper. It's not going to be in the too distant future to see the post office go away, most all paper records or charts of any sort, and the jobs that once went with them - poof. Those jobs will not be replaced with any live person. I don't care how much college education they have. It really is that simple.

We'll continue onward to be a self-service society in that we'll all pay our bills with the click of a mouse, order our own wares, airline tickets, and banking needs. We can already cash out our own purchases in some retail/grocery stores if we're in a hurry. If we have a problem which needs to be solved, after we press 20 buttons on a telephone, we'll try and decipher what the dude in Bangladesh is trying to say to do.

Meanwhile, somewhere it'll save someone a buck, and it won't be one of us.

We need to be careful what we wish for and what we're willing to pay for IMHO.

There's a very fine line between saving the earth and saving ourselves from ourselves right now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Maine

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:55 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top