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It's way more complicated than all that, and your Government has been "boiling the frog" for the last 40+ years. The right wants all the money in very specific, designated pockets, and feels they shouldn't have to pay anyone a living wage if it infringes on their right to profit. The far left wants everyone to benefit from the calculus of economic production reasonably equally - capital, land and labor. A tripartite approach. Labor always gets the stinky end of the stick. It's the golden rule. He who has the gold, makes the rules.
As to minimum wage, I was paid, as a non-union laborer, in the late '70's and early '80's what people get for minimum wage these days. That was 35 years ago. Hence, the "boiling the frog" analogy. Where Government isn't sucking up all the resources to protect themselves from the masses (e.g., "Homeland Security" and the 14 people at BIA standing around when a plane boards with 11 passengers to Philly), they hand the resources out to the monied to make sure they stay in power. And the Koch Brothers don't have a monopoly on power brokering. The other side does it just as slyly, and just as much for self-benefit.
Amazing responses!!! All around. I repped like 5 of you!
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Originally Posted by Submariner
I believe that any bump in wages will have the effect of bumping the COL along with it.
In my travels, I have lived in areas with high paying jobs, and the COL was higher too. Likewise I have lived in 'depressed' areas with only lower paying jobs, and the overall COL is lower too.
Give people more cash to spend, and quickly rent and housing prices will climb.
Correct! Jobs need to be paid at value. I went to school for business administration. Entry level before the great recession started at $12. While Minimum Wage was still at what $6 and change. Skilled Workers as apprentices were only making that too. Now they start at around $16.
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Originally Posted by seasallyttle
It is. The problem is, here if you pay $11/hour you are getting the bottom of the barrel employees that can't get a job anywhere else. As a small business owner, if you care about turnover at all (which is also expensive on many levels) or the quality of your business, it is not realistic to pay this.
Also, I am not saying this is an appropriate policy for any part of Maine, I am just reporting how it is here.
Do try not to forget about all the competition for better paying jobs. Many a good worker who cannot secure better paying jobs needed to go bottom feeding themselves to lower wages jobs. I have been there and had I not been in the fortunate position I was in to hold out I too would have had to eat that S#@% People do have larger bills and families to worry about.
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Originally Posted by wolfhelm
i say 10 min wage is about were i say is good, any higher is bad, and 10 tends to seem about average for lower income folk (walmart ect).
Where I am at $10 can be done with the amount of Multinational companies like Mcdonalds, Walmart, etc. In other areas of that may be catastrophic. The higher it goes the higher the COL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maineac
It's way more complicated than all that, and your Government has been "boiling the frog" for the last 40+ years. The right wants all the money in very specific, designated pockets, and feels they shouldn't have to pay anyone a living wage if it infringes on their right to profit. The far left wants everyone to benefit from the calculus of economic production reasonably equally - capital, land and labor. A tripartite approach. Labor always gets the stinky end of the stick. It's the golden rule. He who has the gold, makes the rules.
They all want it their way or no way. And a lot of the politicians in congress don't even work for their voters. They do what's best for there bidders. The rest just play to the hearts and emotions of the extreme camps.
Abortion, legal cannabis, and the rest really are back burner issues. Yet a whole spending bill can be thwarted to earn political points in their base camp.
It's sad.
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Originally Posted by Maineguy04654
Anyone who thinks this is a good idea has never had to do payroll..
The problem is, here if you pay $11/hour you are getting the bottom of the barrel employees that can't get a job anywhere else. As a small business owner, if you care about turnover at all (which is also expensive on many levels) or the quality of your business, it is not realistic to pay this.
So, where does the additional money come from, that you have to pay employees since the min wage was increased?
Did you cut your profits (and your own income as the business owner)?
So, where does the additional money come from, that you have to pay employees since the min wage was increased?
Did you cut your profits (and your own income as the business owner)?
Or did you raise your prices?
We have never paid minimum wage. We live in an area where it is not realistic to do so, nor could I do it even if we moved to Maine or somewhere else. If we were to do the bare minimum for employees, bare minimum is what we would most likely get in return. Generally speaking, you get what you give. Also, if you pay employees minimum wage and they are the primary bread winner of the family they will be constantly looking for another job so they can survive and support their families and won't have any investment in your company. And no one can blame them for that. That said, we are not a mom and pop corner store so I can see how if you are a local storefront retail or a local service industry job provider (ie restaurant, food service) dependent on locals and foot traffic for business, you (not you specifically but anyone in this situation) might need to pay minimum wage to survive and hope that your employees are the second earner in the family.
We have never paid minimum wage. We live in an area where it is not realistic to do so, nor could I do it even if we moved to Maine or somewhere else. If we were to do the bare minimum for employees, bare minimum is what we would most likely get in return. Generally speaking, you get what you give.
OK, so have you increased the wages you are paying your employees in order to maintain the difference between the minimum wage and their salary, thereby maintaining the relative differential vis a vis minimum wage in order to maintain the 'performance advantages' that you perceive to be necessary as opposed to paying them the minimum?
Or have you allowed their salaries to stagnate, in essence reducing the difference between them and minimum wage workers, which as COL increases will require them to absorb the disparity between wages and purchasing power as prices rise?
If you *have* increased their wages, again, where is that additional money coming from?
If you have *not* increased wages, what will you do when they inevitably become dissatisfied with the gap being reduced between their salary and minimum wage workers and desire/demand more because they see others getting more for less?
Location: MA/ME (the way life should not be / the way it should be)
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i agree some increase is needed as outside forces play in (or even decresses) but if min wage allows one person to support themselfs only working a full time job, then its a good min wage. maines min wage is about 15,600 a year 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, i dont know how many could survive on that wage alone (solo maybe, hard but possible). However, add in any medical issues, and you can kiss yourself goodbye.
OK, so have you increased the wages you are paying your employees in order to maintain the difference between the minimum wage and their salary, thereby maintaining the relative differential vis a vis minimum wage in order to maintain the 'performance advantages' that you perceive to be necessary as opposed to paying them the minimum?
Or have you allowed their salaries to stagnate, in essence reducing the difference between them and minimum wage workers, which as COL increases will require them to absorb the disparity between wages and purchasing power as prices rise?
If you *have* increased their wages, again, where is that additional money coming from?
If you have *not* increased wages, what will you do when they inevitably become dissatisfied with the gap being reduced between their salary and minimum wage workers and desire/demand more because they see others getting more for less?
As I'm sure you know, for skilled positions you have to pay market rate. Market rate varies according to geographic location. If we are hiring an entry level person and $15 is the mandated minimum wage and is a livable wage, we would be ok with paying that. The differential diminishes a bit as the minimum wage comes up and the point of diminishing returns comes closer.
I agree that raising the Minimum wage is bad idea. If anything lock it in at $10.
It doesn't even band - aide the situation. All it does is make things worse. I haven't needed to look at jobs since 2013, but I did for half of 2012 and most of 2013. Between not being many jobs technical or business administrative jobs with long lists of skills or several years of verifiable experience would only go at rates of 12 - 14 an hour.
Now if you operate a microwave you should get $15. To be honest both scenarios are wrong. The business's corporate and small business owners(not all) are the ones really squeezing everyone.
They cite high costs of taxes and healthcare, but if those are the real issues. Tax McDonalds, walmart, or whoever much more. And do not allow companies like that take advantage of programs aimed more at the small or mid cap company.
If healthcare is an issue why did we force everyone to have it while not placing caps on institutions like hospitals. Where just getting a room for one night starts at 1k? A great (non decadent) at a casino will only run you 400.
Lastly, lets place some blame on us the Americans. Who have been so accustomed to certain lifestyle choices and materialistic needs that we have debt loaded our selves to the hilt.
These issues are all much larger then what we can solve here. If we could we would be in office right now working on it. The blame is everywhere, and until we get the majority of extremists in the GOP and Progressive dems out, call the current state of lobbying what it is bribery, and focus most of our attention to digging ourselves out this mess.
And just a reminder.... Most of these massive large companies are now multinational. If the USA economy were to collapse a lot of these high commanding leaders in these firms as well as the citizens(companies are now people) they hold guardianship over can just pick up and leave.
And yes, people forget, We almost did collapse back 2008.
You're paying for the rooms of people who can't afford to pay when they find themselves unfortunately stuck in a hospital room.
Because you see, hospitals are not immune to the costs to do business. There is no magic fairy that sprinkles free healthcare coverage to everyone, and someone has to pay the light bill. Someone also has to eat the bill for people who are covered under state welfare while the state piddly poohs around and takes their sweet time in reimbursement (like say, years after the care was already given).
And our venerable (and vast) group of self-employed people who work hard, but fall through the doughnut hole of the Affordable Care Act? Yeah. Sometimes they can't pay the bill for their emergency appendectomy either.
And don't even get me going about how many times we dine on the hospital bills of the mentally ill who were discharged from state mental institutes and now bounce between hospitals and jails with bouts in various group homes. If a group home can't handle them? Off to the ER they go, where they are often boarded there for more than 2 weeks until crisis workers can find them a placement. And you bet your sweet bippie I'm not exaggerating. Some of them even take several nice ambulance trips (to the tune of $600 or more per trip) because EMS will get whacked with a fine if they don't take them.
You see, it looks really good on the state's books when costs get buried under hospitals and fire departments. "Confidentiality" dontchaknow.
Furthermore, we can't have it both ways. We can't sit here and beat our chests about how much more superior our healthcare system is in services, and then simultaneously b*tch about how expensive it is to use it while demanding the best in care.
Those high cost multi-national firms aren't going anywhere. They know what side their bread is buttered on. They just tuck their funds overseas and crab about losing money.
PS: I really wouldn't like a Blackjack table dealer putting my IV in. Would you?
If you need it to live doctors jack up prices heavily as you cant afford not to have it. A good example i know well is insulin. My insulin costs about 3-400 a vial (lasts 2 weeks) when it takes about 25-40 to make. Its price raises about 10-20% a year. I know many diabetics who have died from not being able to afford insulin.
Medication should be capped at resonable amounts (even an extra 50% more than what it costs to make/do is resonable) charging up 10x its cost to make is no resonable. I suspect many of the older folk here medication charging outrageous amounts.
So a company spends millions on R&D developing a drug they then spend more on marketing and distribution then they expect to make a profit! How dare they! I bet you think the countless law suites by those who have bad reactions to the drug is great to.. Now if we cap what they can charge for the product they make and sell removing the profit for them why would they develop any new drugs at all?
Do people die because they can not afford a drug sure some do. But how many would die if the there was no longer any incentive to make new better drugs? How many died in the 1800's due to medicine that was not regulated ( another huge cost to development ) where you could buy cocaine over the counter for a toothache and mercury for VD.
You're paying for the rooms of people who can't afford to pay when they find themselves unfortunately stuck in a hospital room.
Exactly. A very good friend from college went on to work in hospital administration he worked in two hospitals in New Mexico both closed due to people who do not pay. What other institution in America is forced to accept anyone who shows up in need of their services no matter if they can pay or not. This will suck up all the resources fast. Many hospitals in the south west have closed for this very reason and this problem has spread all the way to Georgia. Steve now works for a private hospital in Texas with no ER and there payments are 97 percent vs 34 to the last hospital he worked for. What kind of business can remain viable when only 34 percent of customers pay their bill?
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