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I sometimes get a bit cranky while corresponding with people on this forum. Since my purpose is to provide information that can truly help to make an informed decision, I do get annoyed when people pay attention only to what supports a point of view they already have, sometimes with no basis in reality. Yes, I know you've all had the experience of being argued with about conditions in the place where you are living by someone who has never actually been there! That being said, if anyone really wants the lowdown on Maine (or anywhere) here are some things to consider:
The responses on this forum are, for the most part, absolutely truthful as far as they go, and represent the authors' actual experience of living in Maine (and other places). Most of those responses, however, may be of little use to YOU and may even mislead you, for a very simple reason: the writers' situation is different from yours, sometimes so very different that there's just no point in comparing. That glowing recommendation may come from a retired person whose income is not dependent on the local economy. Maine is a good place for retirees. For someone with a family to support, the picture can be quite different. Did the poster come here with bags of money that they haven't yet depleted, or did they make their way from scratch? What do they have to fall back on? Is their situation really comparable to yours?
Dig around and find out. A while back, when I asked a question about how rentals in a given city compared with elsewhere, one person responded with details about their apartment, how easy it had been to get it, how affordable it was, and how much they liked living there. I might have considered that a great recommendation for the city in question, but when I probed a bit I discovered that the responder was a young man with his first apartment after leaving his parents' home. He had nothing to compare with, having never lived in any other city or apartment but this one. So, while it was nice to hear of his experience, it had no relevance to my question or to my own experience.
There's a lot of discussion of snow and whether it is or is not a great burden, but not much discussion at all of individual situations. Is snow really burdensome in Maine? It depends, again, on your situation. If you own a four wheel drive truck with a plow, snow doesn't matter much to you and you can well say "I've never had a problem due to snow." If you will be dependent on others to plow for you, you may get home from work to find the driveway must be shoveled out before you can get into it. If your landlord provides plowing, he'll do it when it has STOPPED snowing - but that won't help you if you need to go to work while it's coming down. If you must pay a service to plow you out every time, you'll find it costly. If you shovel out on your own, it's time consuming and might be very difficult - again, depending on factors like how young and strong you are and just how much you really like snow. These are things that deserve to be thought about because you will encounter them persistently in Maine. You may very much want to hear "snow is no problem" and look no further when you do, but you really should inquire whether the person saying so owns a plow and a snowblower - items you might not be able to afford. Know ahead of time that, if you can't afford a plow, you'll be dealing with this issue and that it will cost you time, labor, and/or money.
While some will say that they have a job, have had no problem getting one, and therefore Maine is economically sound and rife with opportunities - well, again, ask some questions. Do they support themselves entirely with that job? If they bought a house years ago and their mortgage is paid off, their situation is nothing like that of someone who will be renting and is dependent on getting and keeping a job. They may be able to comfortably sustain a layoff or cutback in hours or pay. Is that your situation? They may work in an entirely different field from you, one that is either easier or more difficult to accommodate in Maine. If you couldn't find a job for six months or longer, would you be ok? If you had to accept a job at minimum wage with no benefits, could you get by on that? For how long?
Dig deep for answers, ask hard questions, and don't ignore the postings that make you uneasy - those are the ones you should pay particular attention to, if you don't want to wake up and find your dream has turned into a nightmare. If you look at all the topics listed, you'll often see something like "Can't wait to move to Maine, a place I've never even visited" right next to "Desperate in Maine" and "Please help us." I have a strong feeling "can't wait to move" is carefully not reading "Desperate in Maine" because they want to hold onto their preconceived beliefs.
Maine, like other places, offers a variety of experiences - all of which are real and true and valid. I have relatives retired here who adore Maine. If they don't like the weather, they just don't go outside, and their income comes from elsewhere so the local economy is not their problem. They no longer have children in school so can live anywhere, and they're very well situated to enjoy Maine. I've also seen people come here completely unprepared for the realities of the place because my relatives told them how great it was.
It's a fact that, even though a given individual may have a job and may never have been without one, Maine's economy (in general) is bad by almost any standard. Pay is very low, and living expenses are not low enough to offset that. A friend of mine who manages a mom and pop store in a small rural town had 140 applicants for a single, part-time, minimum wage job. It's a fact, both statistical and observable, that most people who come to Maine will be gone from the state within five years. I attribute this in part to Maine's difficult economy but, even more, to the unrealistic expectations of people who come here. Maine inspires people to dream, and they often don't want that dream to bump up against any form of reality.
To sum up, if you're dreaming of Maine, if you think you want to live here, maybe you really do. Before you make that decision, though, you should ask all the hard questions, again and again, and you should come here for at least a couple weeks in the dead of winter. Get out there and shovel that snow! Maybe you'll love it. On the other hand, maybe you'll head for home and be grateful you didn't do anything rash.
Dig around and find out. A while back, when I asked a question about how rentals in a given city compared with elsewhere, one person responded with details about their apartment, how easy it had been to get it, how affordable it was, and how much they liked living there. I might have considered that a great recommendation for the city in question, but when I probed a bit I discovered that the responder was a young man with his first apartment after leaving his parents' home. He had nothing to compare with, having never lived in any other city or apartment but this one. So, while it was nice to hear of his experience, it had no relevance to my question or to my own experience.
First of all, you bring up some excellent points and I appreciate the time it must have taken to craft this post. The fact of the matter is that everyone's situation is different. We all have dream situations and it's easy to overlook the glaring negatives in favor of the positives that we hope will be true. EVERYONE should look real hard at what they're about to get into before they dive in headfirst.
Maine is a place that is perfect for some, but wrong for many. There are a great number of people who come here with ideas in their head and leave with their tail between their legs because it's not what they thought it would be. I should know, I'm one of them. The problem is that while some (like many of the posters you've mentioned) paint a much rosier picture than reality would show, many others... those who have left or are leaving because of differences or problems with the state paint a FAR more negative picture than reality will show. For example, I've heard the weather in Maine described by some of those who love it hear as being temperate and nearly perfect while those who dislike it will claim that it makes Siberia look like Florida in August. Different sentiments can make this state (and any state) seem like two entirely different places depending on which post you read and the point of view who wrote it.
I do however, feel the need to clarify something. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), that the post about Portland rental rates you refer to in your post was mine. You stated that I was in my first apartment after moving out of my parents home. This is not true. This is my third apartment, but my first in Portland, Maine.
Next, While my family has settled in South Eastern Massachusetts (near New Bedford and Fall River), we have lived in Kensington, Maryland and in Providence Rhode Island. We rented in both of those places. My experience with rentals is far more broad than you would like to believe or let on to in your post which is how I came to the conclusion that Portland was relatively inexpensive with regards to rent. The fact of the matter is, an ALL of those places (Metro Providence, Metro Boston, Metro D.C.), even 10 years ago, comparable apartments cost upto DOUBLE what they do here in Portland (Boston being the "almost double" and Washington and Providence still being far more expensive). Sure, I could get something in a rough neighborhood in D.C. that would cost about the same as what I could get in Portland in a NICE neighborhood, but I'd have to sacrifice safety and amenities to do so.
"Relative" is the key word in there. When you compare all aspects of living in Portland, with the same aspects in other places, Portland is still RELATIVELY inexpensive. Portland has low crime, easy access to amenities, good schools, natural beauty ideally located on the coast, a good number of cultural opportunities, transit options in the ferries, buses, rail and airport, etc. You cannot find me an apartment in a coastal city in the Northeast that has ALL of the amenities that Portland does (in the same type of neighborhood), for less... I highly doubt it can be done and if any place can top it, it's the exception and not the rule.
Duplicating the space (both square footage and land area) you have in a small town is going to cost more in a city... even one as tiny as Portland. Everyone was open about that and no one denies it... it's tough to do. Obviously your current home on the Mid Coast will be more expensive in Portland given space limitations and demand... but finding a place that had the features you requested was nowhere NEAR as expensive as you let on to.
Furthermore, other posters and myself gave you ACTUAL examples of places that were FAR below the price of what you said you could get in Portland (many of them were what you were asking for in a place at about 1/2 the price you said you would have to pay). It seemed that like the posters who love you paint "Rosier" pictures than reality, you had a predetermined notion that Portland was far more expensive than it really was and when presented with actual examples and proof (the "facts" as you like to refer to them), you refused to listen. You are just as guilty of being steadfast in your views as anyone else you accuse of doing the same on this forum.
As far as plowing goes (I mentioned our landlord clears our driveway and yard... he also lives in an adjacent unit), I have a 2003 rear wheel drive sedan. It doesn't get much worse in the snow than that. Believe me, when it comes to snow removal, if it's bad... I'm the first to complain.
Anyway, you make some good points, but make sure YOU get YOUR facts straight before writing a long post that suggests everyone else get theirs straight.
In the end, all we can share are our own experiences, and people will take what they like from that. It's not up to us to decide what one should and shouldn't listen to, it's their own personal choice. I think most people are smart enough to recognize that.
. It's not up to us to decide what one should and shouldn't listen to, it's their own personal choice. I think most people are smart enough to recognize that.
You're right, I think most people here are smart enough to realize it as well. We all are guilty of letting our personal feelings influence what we say to others (I know I sure am), but most people looking for info realize that and take it into account.
In the end, all we can share are our own experiences, and people will take what they like from that. It's not up to us to decide what one should and shouldn't listen to, it's their own personal choice. I think most people are smart enough to recognize that.
Agreed. I also think it's imperative for anyone who may be contemplating a move here to come up and visit - preferably more than once, and at least once during the dead of winter.
"Natives" have a different perspective of life here because it's what we were raised on.
I do however, feel the need to clarify something. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), that the post about Portland rental rates you refer to in your post was mine. You stated that I was in my first apartment after moving out of my parents home. This is not true. This is my third apartment, but my first in Portland, Maine.
Irfox, I was in fact referring to a post from ages past, so long ago that I had another name on city-data (I chose a new one after a long absence and forgetting my password on the old one). The post was from a discussion about three years back and was an inquiry into apartments in suburban Philadelphia. I brought it up because it was illustrative of the point I was trying to make in this post, which was that frequently you need to know more and probe deeper in order to know whether someone's response actually has any relevance to you at all. Their experience and situation may be so different as to not be helpful. "Snow in Maine is no problem" spoken by someone who adores snow is an entirely different matter from "Snow in Maine is no problem" spoken by someone who really isn't keen on snow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
Next, While my family has settled in South Eastern Massachusetts (near New Bedford and Fall River), we have lived in Kensington, Maryland and in Providence Rhode Island. We rented in both of those places. My experience with rentals is far more broad than you would like to believe or let on to in your post which is how I came to the conclusion that Portland was relatively inexpensive with regards to rent. The fact of the matter is, an ALL of those places (Metro Providence, Metro Boston, Metro D.C.), even 10 years ago, comparable apartments cost upto DOUBLE what they do here in Portland (Boston being the "almost double" and Washington and Providence still being far more expensive). Sure, I could get something in a rough neighborhood in D.C. that would cost about the same as what I could get in Portland in a NICE neighborhood, but I'd have to sacrifice safety and amenities to do so.
My post wasn't specifically about Portland, more a generalization about Maine, although I think most of what I said could be said about anywhere (leaving out the poor economy, because there are better local economies than Maine's). It was about the need to not only gather information but to sift it as well according to how similar or different the circumstances of the posters are from your own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
Furthermore, other posters and myself gave you ACTUAL examples of places that were FAR below the price of what you said you could get in Portland (many of them were what you were asking for in a place at about 1/2 the price you said you would have to pay). It seemed that like the posters who love you paint "Rosier" pictures than reality, you had a predetermined notion that Portland was far more expensive than it really was and when presented with actual examples and proof (the "facts" as you like to refer to them), you refused to listen. You are just as guilty of being steadfast in your views as anyone else you accuse of doing the same on this forum.
I don't have a specific view, so there's nothing to be steadfast to. I have a prior experience of Portland from some years ago, where prices were inflated and rentals hard to come by, and I was attempting to discover if that was still the case. I wasn't encouraged by the inquiries I'd made up to that point, where most of what I'd seen was again overpriced and unavailable. I took note of the places that were mentioned on this forum and in several instances followed up on them (particularly those on craigslist). Unfortunately, the "fact" that there are a few apartments for rent doesn't constitute a good rental market - kind of like one swallow does not a summer make. As for "accusing" people of being steadfast in their views, that was an observation, not an accusation.
When I research a subject, I take the same advice I gave here. I find out as much as I can from as many sources as I can. I didn't ignore the postings about apartments that were made in response to my question, but on followup I didn't find they were representative of the wider situation - just the experiences of a few people. I followed up myself with many calls and three days in Portland to look at places. I wasn't impressed with what I saw, and if I'd had to choose from among the places available then, I'd have had a precipitous drop in quality of life - so decided to pass on the job opportunity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
Anyway, you make some good points, but make sure YOU get YOUR facts straight before writing a long post that suggests everyone else get theirs straight.
My post had nothing to do with Portland or the rental market there. It was (except for the comment on Maine's economic conditions) intended to suggest that people dig deeper for information and how it applies (or does not apply) to their own situations. Nowhere did I suggest that my "facts" were straight and others' weren't. On the contrary, I pointedly said that the facts matter less than the circumstances and preferences of individual people.
This kind of gets at the root of the many debates we have here on the maine forum. basically when you ask questions of specific people you will get subjective answers.....and thats it....its ALL SUBJECTIVE. And I still laugh when people ask vague questions like...."can I find a nice home for under 250k in Maine?" wow now there's someone who has no clue what their doing...............yet
fact of the matter is there are a great many resources people should be using in addition to this forum to get "factual statistical" information and how it applies to them. Coming here gives some people the chance to talk to a real living person who may or may not be in the situation the poster wants to be in.
And judging from the great many debates we all love to have (myself included) it doesn't take long for a newbie to realize it is all subjective....
This kind of gets at the root of the many debates we have here on the maine forum. basically when you ask questions of specific people you will get subjective answers.....and thats it....its ALL SUBJECTIVE. And I still laugh when people ask vague questions like....
My post had nothing to do with Portland or the rental market there. It was (except for the comment on Maine's economic conditions) intended to suggest that people dig deeper for information and how it applies (or does not apply) to their own situations. Nowhere did I suggest that my "facts" were straight and others' weren't. On the contrary, I pointedly said that the facts matter less than the circumstances and preferences of individual people.
I seem to have been mistaken. I have nothing left to say but to apologize for being so confrontational. Thanks for taking the time to clarify for me even though my post was fairly aggressive and long winded. I was wrong to prematurely presume you were referencing one of my posts.
A side note, you're right about everything being circumstantial. Each situation depends on the individual despite what certain facts may say.
Thanks again for the classy response even though my post did not warrant one. I apologize for the misunderstanding.
I know that I post about my experiences in Maine, and I offend folks.
My point of view may be unique.
And I have been told that my facts are 'rosy'. When I quote the prices of things, I have been told that I must be 'low-balling' them. I think it is kind of funny, without posting a picture of the receipts what else can be done?
I like Maine. It seems that when I explain why I like Maine, it upsets some.
We each have our perspective.
To me when things in Maine cost less money it is 'cheaper' here and I like it. To others Maine costs a lot because they spend so much less.
Everyone has a different perspective.
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I also think it's imperative for anyone who may be contemplating a move here to come up and visit - preferably more than once, and at least once during the dead of winter.
