School superintendent 'out of control'? (Jefferson, Franklin: fit in, credit, house)

[cebdark]

Originally Posted by Maineah

If they were paid piecework like a shoe stitcher so that no kid passes to a higher grade before he learns what is required that would work for me. Plus no pay in the summer.

I think you'll find that there are now so many political "hands in the till" and those who wear such incredibly rose-colored glasses when it comes to educational "pedagogy" fads (example: NEW, new math - whole language vs. phonics, blah, blah, blah) that the good old term "Keep it simple" has completely dried up and blown away.

IMHO, history tells us that we tend to forget what we learned didn't work in the past, and there will soon come another "Back to Basics" revolt.

With this situation, the kids are being blamed for not following the rules that (I'm assuming anyway) were clearly spelled out for them - that's one piece that teachers have to deal with constantly; ergo, the reason that they lose time to teach the basics and have to make more room for "conflict resolution" classes , food choice and activity programs, fire safety...the list goes on. You know, stuff that families should be working on at home.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by maine4.us

... A lack of responsibility is what has gotten us into the financial problems we share today. Those bankers knew what they were doing was risky, and not good business, but they went ahead anyway. Now the whole nation faces decades of paying for their failures. The government has a responsibility also, but the lobbyists made sure they short circuited their responsibilities.

I agree.

... I am also a bit miffed at all the people who complain about teacher/administrator salaries. Teachers at minimum have a 4 year degree, and administrators have a masters degree and some even a doctorate.

maine4.us - I do apologize. I did not intend to upset anyone. I am sorry for offending you.

Please do accept my apology.

My Dw has a K-12 teaching certificate, she has been offered jobs previously in public-funded schools, but seeing the environment in which such teachers work it seemed like a potential mine-field. We homeschooled our children and our foster-children as much as we could.

... I keep hearing complaints about public schools. Public schools made the US what it is today.

Is that a 'good' thing?

Our nation was strong before public-funded schools.

Then we focused on engineers, scientists and doctors which made wonderful advancement and we became high-tech. We sent men to the moon! Now we have lost the tech edge, it has passed us by.

I am typing this on a PC from overseas.

... It's the lack of responsibility that's the real issue.

I agree.

... The schools can only do so much. Parents need to step up like they once did. Teachers and administrators are in some ways held hostage by the parents of the students they provide an education for. We can't take every sow's ear and turn it into a silk purse without some parental help.

True.

... Back on topic... The parents should have warned their kids to behave appropriately or face the consequences. Parents who never teacher their children about consequences are more at fault than their children for these kinds of actions. I will admit blowing a kiss is a bit extreme, but launching a beach ball is past the line. Parents and citizens, back your school personnel, instead of always criticizing them. Force your administrators to get rid of bad teachers. Elect good school board members, so that they hire good superintendents.

Many young adults today do not know how to behave at a wedding or a funeral, and have never sat down at a formal dinner setting for a meal.

In our culture today few practice any form of etiquette.

What is seen in the WWW and the media is young adults 'cutting up'. That is seen as the normal behavior for a formal event.

Where do kids and young adults today learn to appreciate a formal event?

Our movies depict marriage banquets as a place to be 'crashed'.

I attend the annual 'Military Ball' held by the Old Town Hichschool ROTC. The instructors spend a lot of time teaching the kids that it is a formal event. They practice a receiving line. The idea of shaking a person's hand, looking them in the eye and introducing yourself and your date, is an entirely foreign concept for these kids. It is fun, and we spend time helping them along.

For many of the boys being in ROTC is the only experience they have for putting on a tie.

Among the girls for many of them it is the first time they have worn a formal dress. I suspect that for a great deal of them it is the first time they have worn a dress at all.



The behavior being acted out at a highschool graduation ceremony, is the behavior that the children have been taught. Such is our society today.

[Maineah]

Perhaps a military presence at the school would straighten out the little kiddies. Nothing like a National Guardsman with a nice shiny M-16 draped over his shoulded to instill a little dicipline in the hallways and graduation ceremonies. One quick shot, there goes the beachball, and I'd bet little Johnny would refrain from mooning the audience!

[cebdark]

Originally Posted by forest beekeeper

The behavior being acted out at a highschool graduation ceremony, is the behavior that the children have been taught. Such is our society today.

A-yuh. Either that or the lack of teaching what is expected of them by society as a whole. Are manners and etiquette training at home being squeezed out by time constraints in a 24/7 world? Are we so focused on survival that there simply isn't enough time to devote to those values?

I marvel at the "literature" that comes home from various "programs." Ya know, things that were always traditionally taught in the home like a 1 inch thick packet of what to eat, how to stay away from drugs, how to deal with peer pressure...etc. I find myself often wondering exactly when they have time to teach actual "basics."

Or is it just that I'm getting old and slower by the minute?

I dunno, maybe I'm making too much of it, but I think it comes down to simple respect. I guess I have to wonder why these students had to even be made to sign anything that makes them promise to behave in the first place. To me, it's a given that they should be respectful of their peers who prefer to keep it serious.

[7th generation]

If we had acted so at our graduation, a slap across the face would have been waiting along with no diploma.
Little spoiled brats.
... then the parents of the delinquents have the gall to cry foul!

[Northern Maine Land Man]

"Our nation was strong before public-funded schools."

Our founding fathers learned Greek, Latin, astronomy mathematics and grammar at the knees of learned men, not in government schools. Today those subjects are rarely taught if they are taught at all. However, there are some students who excel. They win the state spelling bees, geography bees and do very well in college. They have been home schooled. They know their rights and responsibilities as citizens. They know government's responsibilities and how it is supposed to work. They are home schooled. They are our young patriots.

My wife taught for 45 years. She taught geography, history, grammar and etiquette. She didn't use those words. She was a stealth teacher within the "system". Her students stood out from the rest of the student body. Her students appreciated what she did and in some cases she was the only adult who ever cared about that kid. On Mother's Day they stop in. Today we will attend the wedding of one of her former students. He is a college graduate now, marrying his eighth grade sweetheart. He insisted that we come to his wedding because he wants to thank my wife in public.

[JC3]

When I was in 8th grade, we had a teacher who walked around with a yardstick. Act up and a rap on the knuckles was a definite. The parents never had a problem with it cause if little Johnny or Mary went home and complained, the parents didn't pull out the constitution or sue, the kid probably deserved it. Try that today!

Today's teachers are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Parents are the ones who should be accepting the responsability of making sure their kids learn. The teacher is there to teach...not be a parent. If certain rules or guidelines are set down, it is up to the parents to support the teachers and schools and not be so quick to say my poor child was yelled at or disciplined for something that is foolish. Makes you wonder why the kids think they can get away with anything? If this super went overboard, it was maybe because she wanted to have a dignified graduation and one that kids who worked hard could be proud of. Maybe in her way she was trying to install some pride in the accomplishment, not treat it as some joke. Then there are always the few clowns who think they will just do whatever they please and the parents encourage it.

I look back and say, how did we ever learn anything with teachers teaching and our parents on our case to make sure we studied and went to school? Boy, those were sure hard times! How did we ever do it? I thank all my teachers, the good ones, the tough ones and yes, even the bad ones. They made me want to learn and the bad teachers made it harder cause you really had to put a lot of effort in to get something out. So I thank them too.

I bet if you ask most teachers or administrators how many parent show up for parent/teacher nights and how many show up for sports games their kids are involved in, I will wager the sports stuff wins.

[maine4.us]

I guess I need to clear up more information about teachers. Summer pay of teachers is not free. In our district they with hold 24% of our salary and pay us that 24% that was with held in the summer. As the year progresses they school districts draw interest on that money.....the interest increases as each 24% of paychecks are with held and put into a district interest bearing account. As a matter of fact, this becomes a significant amount of money, and actually funds some teacher pay raises. Sure, I would like to have 100% of every paycheck and let me draw the interest on the money. However, pay raises would not have this additional free income from the district's interest.

Public school systems came about when the US was changing from an agrarian society to a manufacturing society. The family farm unit was the basis of society back then. The only education most children received was "hard knock" education of farm life. As populations shifted to the cities, public schools were necessary to provide the skills needed to work in a manufacturing society. I was raised on a farm, and if we couldn't fix it we did without, if we couldn't make it we did without. We bought few things other than the ones we could not make ourselves. Those years I was very happy, but poor, but so was everybody else. In fact, I didn't know we were poor until the 5th grade.

We left the farm because it became increasingly difficult to make any kind of living, much less a decent one.

[cebdark]

Maine4us: Thank you for the enlightenment.

[Syngar99]

maybe i am old school, but reading about the people involved, i see a punk kid that probably sauntered around and was generally too good to listen to the rules.
Should he be allowed to graduate? sure, but should he expect an apology? no.