Annapolis mansion fire (apartment, house, live) - Maryland (MD) - City-Data Forum

Gcoxusa · 02-12-2015, 07:53 PM

Probably like most people – I have heard multiple news stories about the mansion that was destroyed by fire last month in Annapolis. We know six people died in that tragedy, and we know what caused the fire. Still, something does not make sense.

This was a 16,000 square foot mansion which undoubtedly had the best when it comes alarm systems. I struggle to understand how people can die in a fire when you have working fire and smoke alarms. Something is simply wrong with that picture.

My guess would be that they had the wrong kind of alarm. There are two kinds of fires, flaming fires and smoldering fires. Ionization alarms detect flaming fire and a photoelectric alarm is best for a smoldering fire which are the deadliest kind because they go unnoticed. Would like to hear other ideas.

choccity · 02-12-2015, 09:26 PM

It appeared everything (fire investigation) was wrapped up too quickly. A house that size, burned so quickly and didn't have the proper smoke alarm/ fire alarm or warning system?

No one got out alive, were they trapped, why couldn't anyone get out? I guess it's not unusual for the Christmas tree to still be up. Some folks can be late taking down Christmas decorations.

I know in my house, we move the tree away from vents and electrical outlets because it could catch fire. Was it just too much going on in the house with Christmas decorations still up, grandchildren running around and maybe things fell thru the cracks? Don't know. It's just such a tragedy.

mpheels · 02-13-2015, 05:43 AM

The fire was started by a very large, very old/dry Christmas tree (had been up since Thanksgiving, and lights were left on 24/7). I don't think this was an issue of having faulty or the wrong kind of alarm. This had more to do with the location of the fire relative to the bedrooms, and a lack of fire sprinklers (not saying that fire sprinklers are or should be standard in single family residences, but they would have made a huge difference in this case). The tree was 15 ft tall IIRC, and was in a central foyer area that was two stories tall, and had direct airflow to the bedroom corridor. The tree was also in a location that essentially blocked egress from all of the bedrooms. There is evidence that they did try to escape - one grandparent found in the same room as two of the kids. All of the victims died from smoke inhalation. Basically, the smoke and fire developed so quickly, they were overcome by smoke and unconscious before they had a chance to escape. Add in difficulty securing water due to a lack of fire hydrants, and there wasn't much the fire department could do.

kcmo · 02-13-2015, 06:01 AM

A very dry 15 foot christmas tree in a massive home with no sprinklers. I can see where nobody could get out.

choccity · 02-13-2015, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpheels

The fire was started by a very large, very old/dry Christmas tree (had been up since Thanksgiving, and lights were left on 24/7). I don't think this was an issue of having faulty or the wrong kind of alarm. This had more to do with the location of the fire relative to the bedrooms, and a lack of fire sprinklers (not saying that fire sprinklers are or should be standard in single family residences, but they would have made a huge difference in this case). The tree was 15 ft tall IIRC, and was in a central foyer area that was two stories tall, and had direct airflow to the bedroom corridor. The tree was also in a location that essentially blocked egress from all of the bedrooms. There is evidence that they did try to escape - one grandparent found in the same room as two of the kids. All of the victims died from smoke inhalation. Basically, the smoke and fire developed so quickly, they were overcome by smoke and unconscious before they had a chance to escape. Add in difficulty securing water due to a lack of fire hydrants, and there wasn't much the fire department could do.

So sad.

MikMal · 02-22-2015, 06:20 AM

For anyone who has doubts about how quickly a dry Christmas tree can burn, watch

this video put out by NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology). It's shocking to say the least.

Lindsey0508 · 02-27-2015, 05:15 PM

I get that a tree can go up quickly… but 16,000 square feet - the grandparents apparently tried to put out the fire as opposed to going to wake the kids to get the hell out? Not sure how anyone knows that happened, maybe where the bodies were found?

They may not have had sprinklers, but I bet money they had smoke detectors - and not many people can sleep through that blaring sound… one of the children was over the age of 10 if I recall, maybe about 12? At 12 I knew if that alarm went off, what to do, get the hell out…

Honestly? I'm NOT a conspiracy theorist, but I don't believe anything about this story… I truly feel like those people were dead before the fire…

mpheels · 02-27-2015, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lindsey0508

I get that a tree can go up quickly… but 16,000 square feet - the grandparents apparently tried to put out the fire as opposed to going to wake the kids to get the hell out? Not sure how anyone knows that happened, maybe where the bodies were found?

They may not have had sprinklers, but I bet money they had smoke detectors - and not many people can sleep through that blaring sound… one of the children was over the age of 10 if I recall, maybe about 12? At 12 I knew if that alarm went off, what to do, get the hell out…

Honestly? I'm NOT a conspiracy theorist, but I don't believe anything about this story… I truly feel like those people were dead before the fire…

The investigators have a decent idea of what happened because they have years of training to help them put together evidence and figure it out. They can tell how and where a fire starts based on burn patterns. That plus the locations of the bodies, documentation of the building layout, and statements from neighbors and family about where the tree was placed, all provide a pretty good picture of what happened.

Watch the video linked above, and see how quickly the smoke fills the room. Then imagine a tree twice that size. On top of that, the tree was between the bedrooms and the exit, so there was no easy way out. They were likely overcome by smoke before they even had time to make it down stairs. It's easy to "know" what to do in the event of a fire, but actually doing it in the moment is different. I've been in situations where I woke from a deep sleep to a fire alarm going off - it takes a minute to get oriented and actually process what is happening and what you need to do. With very heavy, hot smoke, that minute is easily enough time to lose consciousness.

choccity · 02-27-2015, 07:52 PM

I actually slept through an evacuation in an apartment building I once lived in. I was on the 10th floor. I scare myself even now thinking how easy I was able to do that. The fire department actually knocked my door off the hinges and rushed in got me and rushed out. Crazy.

MikMal · 02-28-2015, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choccity

I actually slept through an evacuation in an apartment building I once lived in. I was on the 10th floor. I scare myself even now thinking how easy I was able to do that. The fire department actually knocked my door off the hinges and rushed in got me and rushed out. Crazy.

As being a 34+ year veteran of the fire service, I can say that is NOT unusual. I can tell of numerous occasions where I responded on incidents of smoke alarms sounding, breaking down the door (most times with either a sledge hammer or hydraulic ram) after getting no response knocking, only to find the occupant(s) still sleeping inside and food burning on the stove. Even when we would wake them up by shaking them, they would still be groggy for some moments afterwards before their brain kicked in gear. REM sleep can be a b*tch!