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Well, to backtrack a little in what I said above-- I think it depends on your child, and how they deal with competition and pressure. If they thrive in that type of environment, going to school in a school like Lexington High School may make them even higher achievers then if they were in a mid-tier environment. I think it matters what type of children you have, and what type of parents you are. There are definitely a ton of successful kids coming out of those school systems (so I don't mean to knock them in anyway). But I think for other kids, who don't thrive as much in a highly competitive environment, who would rather be a bigger fish in a smaller pond, a school system that is more mid-level may be better for them.
That being said, Manchester by the Sea is a fantastic school system and really one of the most beautiful towns in the state IMO. The only issue is that it is pretty far out there - on Cape Anne, so it can be a terrible commute into different parts of the city/suburbs. Lynnfield is a lovely town with excellent schools that is a little closer to Boston. Reading/Wakefield/Melrose are definitely more conveniently located but more "urban" than Manchester by the Sea or Lynnfield. You seem like caring parents, and your children will probably do well anywhere - so you should probably just check out which town feels right to you, and what you can afford, and provides a good commute for you.
Well, to backtrack a little in what I said above-- I think it depends on your child, and how they deal with competition and pressure. If they thrive in that type of environment, going to school in a school like Lexington High School may make them even higher achievers then if they were in a mid-tier environment. I think it matters what type of children you have, and what type of parents you are. There are definitely a ton of successful kids coming out of those school systems (so I don't mean to knock them in anyway). But I think for other kids, who don't thrive as much in a highly competitive environment, who would rather be a bigger fish in a smaller pond, a school system that is more mid-level may be better for them.
How is your friend's child doing now as an adult? I've noticed these kids who skate their way through high school often don't do well once they get put into the workplace. If they are the big fish in a small pond, they will get eaten alive in the real world. Their work ethic just isn't there. However, average students in Lexington often have a strong work ethic instilled in them from a young age. Grades don't mean a thing in the real world. The hard workers get a lot further than lazy smart ones.
My friend's child actually went to Lex High and hated it for all the reasons I stated above. That being said, he got into a medium tier college and seems to be doing fine in life. I don't think his family thinks that Lex did much for him (especially considering how much it cost them to buy a house), because he actually was less achieving in high school, because he felt like his efforts were making less impact because all the other kids and families were so intense. I don't think it is necessarily skating through if you are doing well in an less competitive environment. Some kids don't handle competition well so they actually do worse in a competitive environment by not trying at all. It really depends on each individual child and family. I think if they have supportive families, they will probably do well in any decent school system in Massachusetts.
Last edited by Beantown_mama; 12-19-2014 at 12:36 PM..
I would never recommend the pressure cooker towns unless the kids are highly competitive and do well under pressure. As a survivor of a pressure cooker school system, it did not make me a better worker; that was instilled in my by my parents. It did make me feel inferior to the many super achievers who probably were no smarter than I was but who were driven to achieve.
I will say that I had never had a bad teacher in that school system. Bad teachers were gone--fast. I had excellent teachers, lots of homework, but the downside was that no matter how hard I worked it was almost impossible to do really well, to excel at anything due to the intense competition.
If I could go back and do it over again, I would choose an above average school system but not one that is always striving to be number one in the state with a huge emphasis on test scores and achievement. Some kids will do well in that type of school but there are others who will hate it and feel like giving up. Much depends upon the individual child and the values the parents set in the home.
I graduated from Lincoln-Sudbury with a 2.18 GPA. 8 years later I'm doing just fine. School wasn't easy for me and I definitely felt the pressure cooker environment aspect of things. That being said many of my friends ended up using college to suspend reality and either failed out or ended up with a $100k piece of paper. Many went on to very successful careers. Lots of it depends on parents guidance and the amount of effort one decides to put in outside of the college environment. Spending the summer backpacking around Europe and getting high at an Amsterdam cafe won't help like an internship or job.
I wouldn't let a pressure cooker school dissuade you, but as a parent you know your kids best. They will be fine if you put in the effort. Focus on affordability, commute, schools, etc. as a whole package.
My friend's child actually went to Lex High and hated it for all the reasons I stated above. That being said, he got into a medium tier college and seems to be doing fine in life. I don't think his family thinks that Lex did much for him (especially considering how much it cost them to buy a house), because he actually was less achieving in high school, because he felt like his efforts were making less impact because all the other kids and families were so intense. I don't think it is necessarily skating through if you are doing well in an less competitive environment. Some kids don't handle competition well so they actually do worse in a competitive environment by not trying at all. It really depends on each individual child and family. I think if they have supportive families, they will probably do well in any decent school system in Massachusetts.
You will be happy to know that Lexington figured out that there are some average students that can feel invisible there, and is putting some money, and extra support to help students who are not the best, nor the worst students in their class. And good for Lexington that is looking out for all.
It is really hard to blame schools. Sometimes parents assume it will be an easy ride simply because it is better school district. Or that teachers will do all the work for them. Some kids, however do need an advocate, and they need their parents to have time to be on top of things.
I would think that if parents had a chance to speak with teachers or counselor on a regular basis, and make sure they are persistent in advocating for their son, outcome of his education in Lexington could have been much happier one. Everyone is great at something.
I do not have children, not did I go to school in Massachusetts. I went to school in the midwest. The schools I attended were a mix of working class and white collar families from a large variety of ethnic backgrounds. Notably, my classmates who were encouraged to reach for the top, keep focused on homework and extracurricular activities and stay away from the partying became surgeons, medical professionals, attorneys, businesspeople and other success stories. Other people in my honors classes, kids with no home support, no parent to show up for parent night or addicted parents did not reach their potential. A few from stable families did cave into peer pressure but did turn their lives around fine once separated from those peers.
How is your friend's child doing now as an adult? I've noticed these kids who skate their way through high school often don't do well once they get put into the workplace. If they are the big fish in a small pond, they will get eaten alive in the real world. Their work ethic just isn't there. However, average students in Lexington often have a strong work ethic instilled in them from a young age. Grades don't mean a thing in the real world. The hard workers get a lot further than lazy smart ones.
Hard work is important, but it's really somewhat distinct from how much of a pressure cooker your high school is. Parents instill the work ethic, not schools. I was the best student at a middle-of-the-road high school and transitioned pretty easily to what then ranked as the college with the largest average workload. Conversely I knew people who had been in a pressure cooker since grade school who just cracked from all the stress.
And it's pretty ridiculous to claim that top students at a high-ranking but not top 5 school district "skate their way through high school".
You generally have to be in the top half of your class in a district like Lexington or Weston just to get into one AP class. That's not as easy as it sounds in a competitive district where so many kids are willing to throw away having a life for studying. To get into a top university, you need to ace 3-4 AP classes and to get into those classes you probably need to be in the top 25% of your class. Not easy to do in those districts.
Now, those "average" kids in Lexington would be able to take 4+ AP classes if they moved over the line into Arlington. Top districts help kids that can stay in the top of their class. If not, you may actually be better off in a different district. Oh, and they may actually get to have some fun and enjoy a normal childhood too. This discussion reminds me of this globe story from a while back:
"She has heard about Facebook pages, for instance, where AP students try to top one another with announcements about how many hours they’ve studied. And when she’s held meetings with students to discuss ways to reduce stress, some of the feedback has alarmed her: “A couple of meetings, students just spoke up: ‘No, no, no, don’t try to structure things for us to have fun. That’s not what we’re here for. We’re here to get an education and get into a high-performing college,’ ” Lasa says. “It was so disheartening. It was chilling.”"
Last edited by semiurbanite; 12-19-2014 at 08:38 PM..
Top university is a bit of a misnomer because frankly sometimes the higher tiered institutions pretty much shut people out of employment. I personally know a Harvard grad that has been looking for work for three years now. No one wants to hire him and he was pretty much forced to do other things like volunteer for some international groups to make it appear that he is doing something because to many travel means money. I recently read Ahead of the Curve and if you see a company with HBS grads leading it *run* right out the door.
Also remember there's about five choices in education these days. Public school, private school, charter school, religious school and online schools. I'm not saying that one way is better then the others but at this point the amount of resources should ensure that everyone gets a good quality education.
Education should not really cost anything because frankly the utility of some type of copyright of information serves no utility. Remember professors are not really tied to a specific location. Tenure does not do this (jokes aside). I've had professors that teach in public but also teach in private and even places like MIT. What matters more the professor that actually does the research and publication or the institution which is what at this point in history?? There is nothing blocking a professor from selling their lectures or writings. Certainly in areas of higher research some might say a institution is needed but in a world of crowd sourcing and crowdfunding that is becoming a harder argument to make.
Learning to program for example is pretty much the same. C++ isn't going to be that much different from one professor to another. Now if you want to talk about lower level education then there's always whole word vs phonetic with languages.
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