Title V help (loan, to buy, disposal) - Massachusetts (MA) - Page 2 - City-Data Forum

KKay9 · 08-21-2015, 01:06 PM

That's great that you are talking to the engineer. I would call the health department in the town the house is in and ask them all these questions. They should know all about Title V, any additional municipal regulations and the way problems are usually solved in various parts of town. I called them several times, about the well and septic here when I was buying this house and they were very helpful. They can also pull the records they have on that property and it's several septic systems...that's public record, anyone can go look at those documents.

What size system are they installing now? Another 3 bedroom system or something bigger? Would be nice if it were for more bedrooms so that deed restriction can be removed.

Edziu23 · 08-21-2015, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KKay9

What size system are they installing now? Another 3 bedroom system or something bigger? Would be nice if it were for more bedrooms so that deed restriction can be removed.

Another 3 bedroom system. I talked to the Board of health last week and they were a big help. That is when I found out about the installation in 2003.

I figure the more people I ask the more facts I can gather and I can make a better decision. I know that this new system could last 40+ years but do I want to take a chance with what I know now.

Dm84 · 08-21-2015, 01:58 PM

If you have strong doubts it's best to follow your gut instinct.

Edziu23 · 08-21-2015, 02:05 PM

Sorry one more thing, this isn't the owner's primary residence. It appears to be a summer home.

bobrainman · 08-21-2015, 06:47 PM

I would walk away!

KKay9 · 08-21-2015, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edziu23

Sorry one more thing, this isn't the owner's primary residence. It appears to be a summer home.

Hmmmm...a septic failing after only 12 years, when it received regular use only several months out of each year is concerning.

Honestly, it sounds like the seller has been cheaping out on the septic. If it were me, I would certainly have replaced it with a bigger system if there are more than three rooms useable as bedrooms! The could have listed the house as a four bed and priced it higher. My current house has a three bedroom septic, but due to rennovations we've done we have five "bedrooms", though we don't call them that

. I actually worked with the health department on making sure we didn't have to get a deed restriction when rennovating (the key was the total number of rooms in the house). IF our septic fails before we ever sell, I'll most certainly upgrade it to at least a four bedroom septic..the increased value of the house will more than make up for the increased cost of the septic system.

flowbe202 · 08-21-2015, 08:35 PM

OP stated it was a waterfront property and also on a small lot. But, I agree with others who stated a seasonal property failing is worrisome. Maybe they rented the property out all summer to frat houses who flooded the yard with a ginormous slip n slide... Maybe they have jacuzzi tubs in every bath... Who knows? If not a "red" flag, it is at minimum a "due diligence because there is risk ahead with deep pocket consequences" flag.

Talking to the people at Town Hall and the Board of Health is a great way to get the inside scoop on the property and the company which installed the system, too!

brightdoglover · 08-22-2015, 07:58 AM

The bedroom restriction is likely due to the water table or proximity to wetlands. You cannot have it changed with a tank. The minimum tank when I built my house in 2001 was a three-bedroom size, but I have a two-bedroom restriction on my deed due to the wetlands and high water table. Many houses in my area have the two-bedroom deed restriction. Apparently, people often build a huge second bedroom with an obvious way to divide the room "after midnight."

I had to build a FAST system, which doesn't depend on the leach field only but is a mini-sewage treatment plant. Back in 2001, it cost about $30k and I did get the $6k tax break (over four years).

My guess on OP's chosen property is a totally cheaped-out kludge of a septic system and whatever the seller has to put in now has to be more upgraded. If the house is considered to have been "continuously occupied," the standard for upgrading is much lower than for a new system replacing a failed system. Find out what the BOH is requiring and what the seller is putting in.

After my own experience, I'd be tempted to walk away, but with due diligence, OP could get the dream house. There's not many "former summer house on waterfront" houses on town sewage in central Mass and this issue will likely be repeated in another similar property. Good luck.

GeoffD · 08-23-2015, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brightdoglover

My guess on OP's chosen property is a totally cheaped-out kludge of a septic system and whatever the seller has to put in now has to be more upgraded. If the house is considered to have been "continuously occupied," the standard for upgrading is much lower than for a new system replacing a failed system. Find out what the BOH is requiring and what the seller is putting in.

Yep. The most likely thing was that the septic system failed testing the last time the house was being sold and that seller opted for the cheapest possible solution. The buyer didn't pay attention and is now stuck with correcting the problem at their expense before the house can be sold again. The other likely cause is the current owner ignored the system for 12 years and dumped things down the toilet and sink that contributed to the failure. Given the dollars at stake if history repeats again, it looks like the OP is taking the correct steps. You need to know why the 12-year-old system failed and if the water table, soil conditions, and other factors will make it likely that the new replacement system will have the same issue. I think it would be worth pulling in a second engineer to look at it when the yellow construction equipment is on-site digging up the existing system. You want the 50 year solution, not the 12 year solution.

My other comment is that if you're aware that your septic system is a bit fragile because of water table and soil condition, there are lots of things you can do to mitigate the problem. Flush septic tank treatment like Rid-X down the toilet monthly to renew the bacteria that dissolve the sludge. Just make it a recurring monthly order on Amazon so it's impossible to forget. Don't ever dump anything that might kill the bacteria down the drain. If it has one, remove the garbage disposer from the kitchen sink. Make sure you pump the tank yearly. Do all the usual water conservation steps. Water saving toilets and shower heads. HE front loader washing machine. Watch all the faucets and toilets carefully to avoid drips.

The lot might be too small for it but it might be possible to install a small separate system to take your grey water from the washing machine and dishwasher. I grew up in a house that worked that way. Grey water in the front yard. The septic system for the toilets in the back yard.

MikePRU · 08-23-2015, 12:12 PM

You are getting some great advice here! Make sure to do your due diligence in regard to the septic system of this house. Talk to the engineer, talk to the health department, talk to whoever you feel you need to. If at any point you feel like you cannot feel comfortable with the septic system, then walk away. However, I wouldn't want you to lose out on your dream house unnecessarily by cancelling the contract before you fully research the issue.