Some questions about housing in Northern MA / southern NH (Boston: for sale, real estate market)

[Leo58]

Looks like I'll be moving from St Louis to Boston soon for a job in the Andover area. I've been all over real estate websites and, aside from the sky high prices, had a few surprises.

For one thing, I was surprised at the number of homes, some not that old, that have no garage. Why would anyone in a northern climate build a house without a garage? Don't you end up scraping ice off your windshield every morning?

We've always had newer houses, but in New England they seem hard to find. I understand the housing patterns are not the same as the Midwest, but the population there is still growing, so where are all the new housing developments? Most of the new housing I've seen is in 55+ communities. Are those very common there?

Finally, I'm looking at New Hampshire because its close to Andover but prices are lower. I realize that is offset in large part by the extremely high property taxes. But anyway, what is Salem, NH like? Is that a desirable place to live?

[darkone]

I have noticed many of the same things as you. The lack of new affordable construction is frustrating but many towns have restrictive zoning and land costs are prohibitive. Tract housing like other parts of the country does not exist here - at least not in the modern sense.

[xo_kizzy_xo]

Originally Posted by Leo58

For one thing, I was surprised at the number of homes, some not that old, that have no garage. Why would anyone in a northern climate build a house without a garage? Don't you end up scraping ice off your windshield every morning?

Depends. There are several houses in my neighborhood, for instance, which have garages. Many, including mine, do not, so yes, we scrape ice/brush off snow every morning when needed. It's like brushing your teeth in that you automatically do it without thinking about it.

We tore down our garage because it was old and literally falling apart. We never built another one because of 1) the cost and 2) we wanted to reclaim that part of the driveway as a backyard extension for our dogs. I daresay that #1 is the primary reason why people either don't have them to begin with or don't rebuild.

We've always had newer houses, but in New England they seem hard to find. I understand the housing patterns are not the same as the Midwest, but the population there is still growing, so where are all the new housing developments? Most of the new housing I've seen is in 55+ communities. Are those very common there?

They're becoming increasingly common. They fall under the state's affordable housing umbrella. Municipalities are more inclined to build them rather than the typical housing developments because of the tax breaks. We have three of them within a 5-mile radius of my house and several more within 10 miles. The few newer developments in the area seem to be directed toward multimillion dollar homes.

Finally, I'm looking at New Hampshire because its close to Andover but prices are lower. I realize that is offset in large part by the extremely high property taxes. But anyway, what is Salem, NH like? Is that a desirable place to live?

I've never lived there so I can't answer, unfortunately.

[Nobodybody]

Originally Posted by Leo58

For one thing, I was surprised at the number of homes, some not that old, that have no garage. Why would anyone in a northern climate build a house without a garage? Don't you end up scraping ice off your windshield every morning??

More expensive, newer construction homes tend to have garages. Starter to mid-level homes often do not, and I believe one reason is that many of these homes were on the smaller side, and over time people expanded their garage into additional living space.

We've always had newer houses, but in New England they seem hard to find. I understand the housing patterns are not the same as the Midwest, but the population there is still growing, so where are all the new housing developments? Most of the new housing I've seen is in 55+ communities. Are those very common there??

Simply put, the Greater Boston area is full. There isn't much space to build new, so typically, an older home is bought, torn down, and this is where the new construction comes from. The problem is, it has to be in a market that makes the teardown and rebuild profitable, so ultimately, new construction is very costly. Increase your budget limit, and you will find it. Unfortunately, the majority of us out here can't afford it.

Finally, I'm looking at New Hampshire because its close to Andover but prices are lower. I realize that is offset in large part by the extremely high property taxes. But anyway, what is Salem, NH like? Is that a desirable place to live?

I'm not sure of your price range, but property taxes are somewhat higher in NH than MA, but not extremely (of course this varies by town and cost of house). The offset in New Hampshire is that there is no state tax (not from your paycheck, not when shopping, etc.) so that is why there is a bump in property tax. However, note that if you reside in NH and live in MA, MA will take a state tax from your paycheck.


Finally, how about some positive news. New Hampshire is awesome. I personally think Portsmouth, NH is my favorite city in New England. Many of the towns in between Portsmouth and Salem can feel very quaint and rural (perhaps a Midwest feel you might be interested in having?). Lots of towns to choose from. Although I can't speak for Salem specifically, I believe it is densely populated and basically an extension of MA.


Also, New Hampshire has a beautiful coastline, and a 1-2 hour drive to the north puts you around Lake Winnipesaukee and the White Mountains. If the job market wasn't concentrated closer to Boston, I would definitely be living up there.

[Boston_Burbs]

With every house in New England having a basement, the cost of construction is higher and the garage usually gets taken out.

[CaseyB]

The only house I've ever lived in that didn't have a garage was the small starter cape we owned prior to our current home.
Not only do you have to scrape your windshield, but you have to move your car out of the way to shovel the driveway or plow it. No fun. You'll also need a tool shed to keep stuff like bicycles, lawnmowers and yard tools in.

[rethcir]

Many of the houses in New England were build before cars existed.

[robr2]

Originally Posted by Leo58

Looks like I'll be moving from St Louis to Boston soon for a job in the Andover area. I've been all over real estate websites and, aside from the sky high prices, had a few surprises.

For one thing, I was surprised at the number of homes, some not that old, that have no garage. Why would anyone in a northern climate build a house without a garage? Don't you end up scraping ice off your windshield every morning?

We've always had newer houses, but in New England they seem hard to find. I understand the housing patterns are not the same as the Midwest, but the population there is still growing, so where are all the new housing developments? Most of the new housing I've seen is in 55+ communities. Are those very common there?

Finally, I'm looking at New Hampshire because its close to Andover but prices are lower. I realize that is offset in large part by the extremely high property taxes. But anyway, what is Salem, NH like? Is that a desirable place to live?

The vast majority of the suburban housing stock in eastern MA was built in the 50's - 70's. Garages were found in split level and the better homes in the finer suburbs. My neighborhood was built in the 60's. The only houses with garages are splits or had them added as part a of renovation. These were starter homes back then (now $500K plus) and starter homes didn't get garages.

If you don't have a garage, you just deal with the snow and frost. You go outside, turn on the car, and let the heat melt the frost.

The new housing developments are typically very small compared to the midwest. There aren't thousands of undeveloped acres waiting for Toll Brothers to come in and built huge subdivisions. Any available land is expensive and zoning is such that 8 houses per acre just isn't done. In my town, 99% of new single home construction is done through tear downs - find an old ranch in the $300-350K range, tear it down, and put in a 2500 sq. ft. colonial and sell it for $900K+.

New Hampshire is a option but since you will be working in MA, you will be paying the higher NH real estate taxes and MA income tax. Salem, NH isn't a bad place to live. There is a huge retail strip on Rt. 28 that can get crazy during the holidays. If you live east of Rt. 28, you have to deal with it to get to the highway.

What is your budget and what features are you looking for?

[chicagoliz]

Welcome! (I went to WUSTL, so I have fond memories of St. Louis.)

Yes, the garage thing is surprising. When we moved here from PA, our friends there were shocked we spent a fortune on a house with a one car garage. And we were lucky to get a garage at all. We miss our nice 2 car, attached garage, but we wanted to live closer to the city and had to sacrifice the garage.

With your radius emanating from Andover, you have more options for newer construction that does have a garage. But that leaves some other questions, such as whether you have a spouse who will need to commute somewhere, whether your job in Andover is expected to last forever, what you like to do when you are not working, and how much you want to spend on your house.

[Leo58]

Originally Posted by chicagoliz

Welcome! (I went to WUSTL, so I have fond memories of St. Louis.)

Yes, the garage thing is surprising. When we moved here from PA, our friends there were shocked we spent a fortune on a house with a one car garage. And we were lucky to get a garage at all. We miss our nice 2 car, attached garage, but we wanted to live closer to the city and had to sacrifice the garage.

With your radius emanating from Andover, you have more options for newer construction that does have a garage. But that leaves some other questions, such as whether you have a spouse who will need to commute somewhere, whether your job in Andover is expected to last forever, what you like to do when you are not working, and how much you want to spend on your house.

When I bought my last house I said I'd never buy one without a 3-car garage. One stall is for lawn mower, bicycles, garbage cans and tools. But I can live with a 2-car garage.

You ask great questions:
- No, my spouse will not be working
- Nothing lasts forever. I expect to be in this job 5-7 years. For that reason, I would consider renting, but the rental market in Massachusetts is even more depressing than the real estate market.
- When not working, I enjoy all sorts of outdoor activities, so New Hampshire sounds great. But I'd still like to be close enough to drive into Boston occasionally to get a little culture.
- You phrased it correctly. It's not so much about what can I afford, as it is how much I want to spend. I have a hard time getting my head around paying more than $700k for a house. So newer construction, or a somewhat older house that has been updated, 3+ BR with a garage in a nice area within 30 minutes of Andover for $600k or less would be ideal.