Why doesn’t Springfield downtown have more a happening downtown (Lowell: how much, home)
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Springfield has always been a dumpy city since I grew up in the area in the 80's. There used to be some clubs and bars downtown on Worthington St, but those shut down 10-20 years ago due to crime, and the growing scene in Northampton. Like Lawrence, Fall River, and Brockton, Springfield has sizable minority population that's been suffering with poverty for decades. I've seen the downtown make some slight improvements recently, but the city as a whole has some major socioeconomic issues and a pretty horrible crime problem.
There are so many better places to live in the Valley than Springfield. Northampton, Amherst, South Hadley, Easthampton, Greenfield, Westfield, hell even Holyoke.
I try to ignore him/her. Reminds me what ever happened to parried.....
We really don't need hate. I recommend reading the book The Color of Law. It isn't a far left book but simply tells the actual policies as they happened.
in fact, it is just the opposite in many cities. In New England mid sized cities like Providence, New Haven and just beginning in Hartford have had more housing built in the city core in the last 10 years. In Providence nearly 2000 housing units have been built and more are planned. These units are not affordable housing and some families have moved into the smaller ones. Most are aimed at the 20-40 year old group and Boston commuters.
in fact, it is just the opposite in many cities. In New England mid sized cities like Providence, New Haven and just beginning in Hartford have had more housing built in the city core in the last 10 years. In Providence nearly 2000 housing units have been built and more are planned. These units are not affordable housing and some families have moved into the smaller ones. Most are aimed at the 20-40 year old group and Boston commuters.
I think you’re a bit optimistic with Hartford. Some downtown apartments with massive subsidies from the state. I could live in the West End but the rest of the city outside the business core is circling the drain. Unlike Boston, there are affordable inner suburbs. I’m in Bloomfield a lot. It’s about 50% African American. Safe. Well kept. The property tax rate is ugly but houses are inexpensive. There’s no need to urban pioneer in Hartford when affordable suburbia is right over the city line. Even the leafy affluent white people enclaves are affordable by Boston standards.
I think you can say the same thing about Springfield. If you’re making 6 figures at BayState Medical or Mercy, you’re not likely living in Springfield. Providence has Brown. New Haven has Yale. There are white collar professional jobs beyond the medical cartel ones that exist everywhere. You can optimistically project that with a big pile of state money, a large chunk of Hartford could gentrify. I don’t see how that happens in Springfield since it doesn’t have the white collar jobs to support it.
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Originally Posted by mr2448
in fact, it is just the opposite in many cities. In New England mid sized cities like Providence, New Haven and just beginning in Hartford have had more housing built in the city core in the last 10 years. In Providence nearly 2000 housing units have been built and more are planned. These units are not affordable housing and some families have moved into the smaller ones. Most are aimed at the 20-40 year old group and Boston commuters.
It's the opposite all over. Rural areas are and have been dying. Losing population left and right.
bloomfield is interesting. The community center is huge and is a good mix of things for kids and the elderly.
As for white collar jobs in Springfield well there is Tower Square. Medical, insurance, banking (td bank). Mattoon Street look like the back bay of Boston.
With respect to crime frankly it keeps dropping. Like I said before if you don't use or sell drugs or are in a gang the chances of anything happening are pretty small. The complex I live in the downtown has students doing their residency at Baystate. Others left Northampton when it cost more but now Amherst and Northampton are pretty much empty. The students might not really be going back and that's leaving many stranded businesses to fend for themselves. Ever hear the old saying "If the mountain won't come to Mohammad Mohammad must move to the mountain". If the place was awash in crime then how can I live in the downtown and yet my car insurance costs the same as when I lived in the south shore years ago? Even my girlfriend was surprised about hers (Storrs ct) and mine are about the same rate. If crime was a huge concern how come there's plenty of open parking in the city and yet no one wakes up with their cars on blocks or with missing catalytic converters? The answers to that frankly is that there's cameras all over the place with local and state police in the area. There's also private security and a fair amount of media. You want to do something stupid and end up on the front of Masslive.com ? Go ahead but it isn't going away. People and groups communicate about everything constantly now. City councilors, neighborhood groups, non profits, businesses etc. Nothing is really hidden.
Urban areas are by far easier to redevelop then developing a suburban or rural area. Take a look at the upfront costs of putting in water lines, sewer lines, electrical lines, telecommunication, natural gas etc. Of course there's always zoning. Natural gas appliances generally last longer than electrical. Add in more access to health and transit and it adds up. The population was generally flat but now there's been a slight increase. If you are the only place growing surrounded by places that are either flat or shrinking eventually the difference becomes deeper. Even with COVID there's still projects going on. Farmers market food from Amherst comes down on Friday in a box. Why sell here? Because there's simply more people. Same with farm sourcing from CT.
With respect to Hartford and CT the irony is striking. West Hartford used to have a UConn Campus. Now it's a empty shell that supposedly some company from China might remodel. Now there's a downtown Hartford campus. The major insurance companies have provided financial bailout funds and dedication to Hartford but haven't provided anything to the suburbs for their foundation problem. What is it *really* saying if they are more apt to prop up a city in financial issues than the suburbs around it. The issues I see in CT is that it doesn't have a prop 2 1/2. It isn't that uncommon to hear of increases well beyond what anyone in Mass would ever tolerate. I can understand an override for a school but to have some random 9% increase is crazy.
Last edited by mdovell; 07-01-2020 at 11:48 AM..
Reason: adding more
The reason Springfield will never come back is that there's no reason for it to come back. I can remember the tail end of when it was still beautiful from back when I was a kid. But everything went elsewhere--just like other cities, the manufacturing is gone and it is no longer needed anyway. The stores went elsewhere, the businesses? I don't know where the businesses went--to the suburbs?
Even after Springfield was going downhill we still went there to go to the dentist or the optician or even a doctor sometimes. Then those moved to the suburbs too. There's just no need for a Springfield except as a dumping ground for poor people, for the most part. The things it used to provide are either no longer needed or they moved out.
Amherst and Northampton exist mainly due to the colleges. If it weren't for the colleges, those two would probably be dumps too. The surrounding towns were for growing tobacco--don't need that anymore. Rte 9 has all the stores and even luxury condos and assisted living.
Springfield just seems like a vacuum--nothing much there except poor people, sadly. The population and services seem to exist in somewhat of a circle surrounding the city that used to be. That's what would happen if Boston died. Pretty suburbs with no city to relate to.
The reason Springfield will never come back is that there's no reason for it to come back. I can remember the tail end of when it was still beautiful from back when I was a kid. But everything went elsewhere--just like other cities, the manufacturing is gone and it is no longer needed anyway. The stores went elsewhere, the businesses? I don't know where the businesses went--to the suburbs?
Even after Springfield was going downhill we still went there to go to the dentist or the optician or even a doctor sometimes. Then those moved to the suburbs too. There's just no need for a Springfield except as a dumping ground for poor people, for the most part. The things it used to provide are either no longer needed or they moved out.
Amherst and Northampton exist mainly due to the colleges. If it weren't for the colleges, those two would probably be dumps too. The surrounding towns were for growing tobacco--don't need that anymore. Rte 9 has all the stores and even luxury condos and assisted living.
Springfield just seems like a vacuum--nothing much there except poor people, sadly. The population and services seem to exist in somewhat of a circle surrounding the city that used to be. That's what would happen if Boston died. Pretty suburbs with no city to relate to.
Maybe Springfield should have built a college instead of a casino. They've got a really good symphony with a real hall. Albany plays in a theater that wasn't designed for classical music. Nashua plays in a school auditorium.
The reason Springfield will never come back is that there's no reason for it to come back. I can remember the tail end of when it was still beautiful from back when I was a kid. But everything went elsewhere--just like other cities, the manufacturing is gone and it is no longer needed anyway. The stores went elsewhere, the businesses? I don't know where the businesses went--to the suburbs?
Even after Springfield was going downhill we still went there to go to the dentist or the optician or even a doctor sometimes. Then those moved to the suburbs too. There's just no need for a Springfield except as a dumping ground for poor people, for the most part. The things it used to provide are either no longer needed or they moved out.
Amherst and Northampton exist mainly due to the colleges. If it weren't for the colleges, those two would probably be dumps too. The surrounding towns were for growing tobacco--don't need that anymore. Rte 9 has all the stores and even luxury condos and assisted living.
Springfield just seems like a vacuum--nothing much there except poor people, sadly. The population and services seem to exist in somewhat of a circle surrounding the city that used to be. That's what would happen if Boston died. Pretty suburbs with no city to relate to.
Right and Amherst and Northampton ARE gone now because the students aren't really coming back. Poorer people sure but the housing is less anyway. Not everyone can afford boston and I've seen med students doing their residency in bay state and living here. They just can't afford to do that in boston. Manufacturing still exists but it depends what you want. What it's known for mostly is guns with smith and wesson and that's still there. We wouldn't see the rail factory being created and rail cars being made for the MBTA as boston has no factories.
As for stores even in suburbs there's really no stores as things went online. Dentists? There's dentists that moved to the downtown. Taylor for example. There's at least three eye care center locations in the city as well. I'm not sure where you got your information from.
Obviously it didn't move out to the suburbs. Monsoon Roastery is located here. I don't go really anywhere for other services as it's all here. Medical is here baystate and mercy and shriners. Like it or not there's a fair amount in western mass/western new england. Finance, medical education etc.
"Maybe Springfield should have built a college instead of a casino. They've got a really good symphony with a real hall. Albany plays in a theater that wasn't designed for classical music. Nashua plays in a school auditorium."
Um there's Springfield Technical Community College, Springfield College, American International College, Western New England University, Cambridge College, UMass at Springfield... there's a fair amount of colleges in the city itself they just aren't in the downtown for the most part (exception is umass). Would I say it's a college city? Not really. If you want wild parties go somewhere else. We can go months without hearing a peep from them. STCC is pretty impressive as it's much of the armory. I'd argue it's as big as BHCC with the new addition.
The funny thing in talking about poverty is it implies as if there has to be some cost to buy more things. Frankly as prices drop there's a disincentive. Yet I know plenty of suburbs that are poor. Few streetlights at night, few sidewalks, no natural gas lines, not as much for telecommunications, not much for water and sewer lines etc. At least a city can build easier as the economy of scale is much better. No reason to go..well if it wasn't for COVID we'd have all the festivals. I rarely go to suburbs for anything. Chain stores sucked the soul out of most of mainstreet long ago. There's more poverty in rural areas at this point. It's cheaper to give people uhauls and luggage and get them to where other people are. Think about it this way. Between Springfield, Holyoke and Chicopee you have more than twice the number than in the Berkshires.Throw in Franklin County and they still have more in those three places combined. Businesses aren't as apt to move to more expensive areas, they go to lower cost ones that have a greater roi and roe. Well as western mass consolidates it is simply going to springfield. If just ten percent of Franklin and Berkshire county left that's nearly 20K.
For restaurants I always go to cities as that's where the better restaurants are. Stores not really as it's moved online. If I want to go to an asian supermarket is it going to be in the suburbs? Probably not. I don't see ethnic neighborhoods in suburbs and as much for historical districts. This leads to a mcmansion like mentality.
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