Why doesn’t Springfield downtown have more a happening downtown (Boston: sale, student loans)

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Besides, a big slice of college is having a controlled environment to practice adulting for four years. Zoom video in your parent’s basement doesn’t achieve that.

Yes but what do colleges care about most? Because students ultimately are going to follow whatever colleges decide.
How sustainable is to keep squeezing more and more money out of students vs trying to seriously cut costs?

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by timberline742

May. Could. If those things were going to happen, they'd happen anyway, over time. Things do change over time, but people are still going to be going to college. Lots of things can't be done online. Lots of jobs can't be done at home.

I don't disagree. The number of jobs that can be done home nowadays is huge though.

[mdovell]

My major point being is that Academia is key to the Boston metro area economy and in particular if you take away the need for students to actually be within the confines of the classroom and they're going to spend less money in aggregate to all the various bars and clubs and sporting events.

When you see much of the Economy based on one thing and that one thing is taken away or significantly modified it has ramifications. I would say in Springfield the issue isn't Academia but it's cars. Self-driving cars will have a systemic impact in the area as we see car dealerships, car washes, car part stores, auto repair shops, car insurance companies, drunk driving lawyers all have to change their business models.

I've heard some pretty strong arguments that economies are like muscles. When it has a downturn it's torn it comes back and sometimes can come back stronger but it's not the same. Just like getting a new pet to replace an old one is fine but it's not the same.

Academia has been in a significant bubble for a number of years. It's not so much the professor's but it's the administrative costs and the bloat that comes from every single fee for every single non-used item. Commuters should not be subsidizing dorms or sporting arenas.

Technologies makes the things to be more efficient and you can either cut out the middleman or you can cut out the physicalness. How many people still develop film these days? How many still use travel agents? How many people still use phone books? How many people still use pay phones? We've seen a massive consolidation of the needs of doing things physically and that's not going to change anytime soon. This didn't just start with covid-19 but that certainly makes it faster.

If this lasts a few years it most likely will be normalized. As it stands right now the online portion for public schools is still on the table as being a default. Between the state Board of Ed and teachers unions and the State Board of Ed and the school committee's the default is to stay online. If high school is getting used to this it's not going to be any different when they go on to higher ed. They'll be used to it.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by Siberiaboy

Potbelly sandwich works
Fuddruckers
Whole Foods
Bareburger

Pho Vietnamese
Peach wave
A dessert man and pap

A place with Italian ice , gelato,
a Viennese bakery
And Italian local cappuccino place

With water taxis on the CT River and the existing high rises overlooking this

A revitalized trolly system connecting MGM and then a rail to Boston

And a Massmutual Center all glowing over this skyline

Why is this not Springfield, Massachusetts?

The Boston money only stretches but so far. Everywhere can’t be nice and or trendy. Just not feasible.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by timberline742

It has no appeal to promote a resurgence. Gentrification isn't going to happen. No appeal to young artists, or young techies. Crime rates change from demographic changes, and there is nothing to change that. Might be some minor fluctuations here and there, but thats it.

Correct. Springfield will continue to see white flight as it’s been seeing. There’s no change around the corner. The place carries the stigma of being majority-minority and has high crime to match perceptions. It is a useful place for some poor folks to make their way to the lower middle class and a necessary cultural/event place for western Mass but that’s it.

48% white in 2000
37% white in 2010
28% white in 2018

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

I think you’re a bit optimistic with Hartford. Some downtown apartments with massive subsidies from the state. I could live in the West End but the rest of the city outside the business core is circling the drain. Unlike Boston, there are affordable inner suburbs. I’m in Bloomfield a lot. It’s about 50% African American. Safe. Well kept. The property tax rate is ugly but houses are inexpensive. There’s no need to urban pioneer in Hartford when affordable suburbia is right over the city line. Even the leafy affluent white people enclaves are affordable by Boston standards.

I think you can say the same thing about Springfield. If you’re making 6 figures at BayState Medical or Mercy, you’re not likely living in Springfield. Providence has Brown. New Haven has Yale. There are white collar professional jobs beyond the medical cartel ones that exist everywhere. You can optimistically project that with a big pile of state money, a large chunk of Hartford could gentrify. I don’t see how that happens in Springfield since it doesn’t have the white collar jobs to support it.

Hartford is probably in a better position than Springfield at the moment and I snore of a true city. I know a few young people who’ve moved there. They like that it’s simple, dense, affordable, white collar good paying jobs diverse and place of life is very manageable.

One works for ESPN, one for Trinity College, one in the state house, and one in a mental health non-profit. They all live downtown.

It’s added a supermarket, food hall, BRT system, UConn campus and dorms and a Yale educated mayor who has an urban planner for a wife. Its clawed out of financial insolvency and avoided bankruptcy.

No one and I mean no one wants to move to Springfield except maybe poor Hartford families. Still poor-but with a yard..

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Hartford is probably in a better position than Springfield at the moment and I snore of a true city. I know a few young people who’ve moved there. They like that it’s simple, dense, affordable, white collar good paying jobs diverse and place of life is very manageable.

One works for ESPN, one for Trinity College, one in the state house, and one in a mental health non-profit. They all live downtown.

It’s added a supermarket, food hall, BRT system, UConn campus and dorms and a Yale educated mayor who has an urban planner for a wife. Its clawed out of financial insolvency and avoided bankruptcy.

No one and I mean no one wants to move to Springfield except maybe poor Hartford families. Still poor-but with a yard..

That sounds about right to me. Of the two, Hartford seems to be looking up a tiny bit. Still, it's too dangerous for me and I won't go there even though I live nearby. And even though I was born in Springfield and even lived the first few years of my life there, you couldn't pay me enough to go there. Ever.

If Hartford continues to improve, there are things I would like to do there--museum, theater. That's about it because it doesn't have shopping anymore (that I know of--I haven't been there in years.) We've got to admit that Springfield is just gone. In the 1980s they used to talk about Matoon St (sp?) and that may be a revitalized street but all the rest is just talk. The south end was home to the mob and I wouldn't be surprised if it still is. Downtown is gone, most of the city looks like a bomb exploded there. I hate the fact that this has been allowed to happen to a place that I used to love, a place with the most interesting city library and the best park I've ever known, but the city has collapsed and no matter how much they say (and they've been saying it ever since I can remember) that they're doing this or they're doing that, it does not come back. They (whoever) have been throwing money at it forever and nothing gets any better.

It's a place for the very poor and that's about all it is now. They have to live somewhere so let them live in our once proud and beautiful "City of Homes." It was known for its beautiful homes but maybe that was a tad off. It should probably just be known as a place of homes for the otherwise homeless.

[tovarisch]

in_newengland, you are allowing your fear to control you as regards Springfield. Admittedly all bets are off since COVID, but pay attention to what mdovell is saying. Unless you're involved with drugs or gangs, Springfield is SAFE. There's stuff to do! C'mon back.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by tovarisch

in_newengland, you are allowing your fear to control you as regards Springfield. Admittedly all bets are off since COVID, but pay attention to what mdovell is saying. Unless you're involved with drugs or gangs, Springfield is SAFE. There's stuff to do! C'mon back.

Then why don't you move there? You work there, no???

[tbanks3]

I currently live in Windsor CT with my fiancé who works in downtown Hartford. We are only a few miles to downtown which is great. Before this I spent 4 years living in Springfield for grad school and into my current job at Baystate. I lived in sixteen acres, East Forest Park, and downtown on Mattoon St. Sixteen acres felt like a suburb, East Forest Park was actually very convenient and quiet, and Mattoon St was lovely. Honestly I did not want to leave my brownstone on Mattoon. My brother and I lived with me in East Forest Park and downtown and shared the same feelings. Overall downtown does leave some to be desired and has its obvious share of dysfunction, such as restaurants not being open at needed times, and lack of nearby grocery store in walking distance, though there are bodegas and convenience stores. I felt safe, and frequently walked places alone, even at night. My fiancé (then girlfriend) has some reservations but as long as she wasn't alone felt ok too. Those who sound the alarms about the crime rate probably don't live there or experience the city in any connected way. I do respect the concern from afar, as well the female experience, which is true in all dense cities. It doesn't mean that you are truly safe and protected, because that is not guaranteed anywhere. However I really miss it looking back, having the option to walk to my favorite bars and restaurants, and being able to do that with company when they visited, and being so close to my job.

I find the southern parts of Windsor to be similar to East Forest Park/Sixteen Acres of Springfield. It's a nice place to live in my opinion, we love it. Not an overly white suburb and feels like an extension of Hartford. I prefer Hartford slightly to Springfield as I think it has more potential given it is a capitol city, has the employment base, and some good things happening. But nonetheless Springfield does still have some attractive aspects to it and I think its bones are good enough that it could steadily improve, but that would probably require investing in the people who live there now rather than trying to make it more like Boston, or Northampton, or Providence for that matter. I suspect gentrification is a long ways away as the suburbs are easily accessible in this region. Springfield has its strengths, and certainly would benefit from its citizens having more resources/quality of life.

I do think the investment in cities is the way to go moving forward, and using a regional approach makes sense given the precarious times. Rail helps development which Springfield and Hartford corridors need for infrastructure. We will see if that trend continues. Right now it seems sort of like starting from the beginning due to all the years of blight and white flight, but with a foundation that is hard to replicate, which is also a strength IMO.