Mass. Democrats Ram Through an Abortion Bill Too Extreme for Their Pro-Choice Governor (condo, university)

[bostongymjunkie]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

Respectfully, where exactly do you disagree? That some adult should have consent? And if so, for what reason?

Do you think the healthcare of a 16 year old is the business of their parents?

I've outlined my disagreements. I understand you have issues when people disagree with you, but that's your problem not mine. Good night.

[cb2008]

Originally Posted by Frostnip

In situations where abortion is legal, should parents be able to force their pregnant minor daughter to get an abortion even if the daughter doesn't want to terminate the pregnancy? If your answer to this is "no," then the answer to the opposite question - should parents be able to deny an abortion to a minor daughter who wants to terminate - should also be "no."

yeah. unless your intention is ban all abortions.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

Like I said, you’re prone to playing tu quoque (poorly).

I’m suggesting I’m empathetic to the idea of this law, informed both from real world experience (which should not inform law making) and a very top level understanding of the data (at one point a friend was deeply entrenched in this debate via a DC non-profit ... lobbyist group).

I’m not the one advocating against the rights of a person, nor am I suggesting rights be restricted, so I’m not at all ‘caught’ in whatever ‘conflict’ you’re accusing me of. I’m suggesting men should quite literally **** on issues of abortion as they have limited consequence, beyond financial, to the birth of a child.

I already quoted posts in this very thread that demonstrate your hypocrisy. And yes, you are suggesting rights be restricted (in this case the parent's). I happen to have a hard time granting new "rights" to a non-adult that never existed previously.



And to suggest men having "limited consequences beyond financial"...I have no words for that that at all. Again getting way OT.

[suzy_q2010]

Originally Posted by massnative71

I already quoted posts in this very thread that demonstrate your hypocrisy. And yes, you are suggesting rights be restricted (in this case the parent's). I happen to have a hard time granting new "rights" to a non-adult that never existed previously.

Should a sixteen year old be allowed to consent to prenatal care, delivery (including possibly major surgery in the form of a Cesarean) and everything to do with her child, including medical care?

Should her parents be held responsible for her child until it is eighteen years old?

What about the father of the baby? What if he is a minor, too? His responsibilities? Those of his parents?

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie

I've outlined my disagreements. I understand you have issues when people disagree with you, but that's your problem not mine. Good night.

That’s a rather deflating end to what I thought was nothing more than measured discussion.

#takingmyballhome

[BostonBornMassMade]

Yea I think I’m of the opinion of the girl wants an abortion and the parents denied it they would have to be held virtually 100% responsible for raising said child and automatically become its legal guardian.

That should satisfy all parties. Thankfully that’s not the predicament we are in.

[bolehboleh]

I have a few thoughts:

1. I strongly believe that no abortion should be performed after the age of viability (with some exceptions I'll address in my next point). I realize a baby can often survive outside of the womb after about 25 weeks, so I'm a little uncomfortable with the 24 week cut-off. I would be a little more supportive if they moved the cut off date to 20 or 22 weeks.

2. That being said, I do support late term abortions if the fetus has died and/or the mother's life is in jeopardy. That's a no brainer.

3.As for late term abortions related to the mother's mental health, I hope there are strict rules that will be followed before a doctor will sign off on a late term abortion.

4. Although I'm pro choice, I realize that abortion is a very sticky subject and I certainly understand why some people oppose it. Reducing a person's concerns about abortion to "you hate women" does nothing to advance the conversation.

5. For a little while, I wasn't sure how I felt about lowering the age to 16, but after much thought I think it's a good idea. The age of sexual consent in Mass is 16, so I also believe that a girl should also be allowed to have an abortion without parental permission at that age.

6. Nothing was "rammed through" - I really wish people would stop using that expression. The General Court passed the law, the Governor vetoed and the General Court overrode that veto. That's how representative democracies work.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Yea I think I’m of the opinion of the girl wants an abortion and the parents denied it they would have to be held virtually 100% responsible for raising said child and automatically become its legal guardian.

That should satisfy all parties. Thankfully that’s not the predicament we are in.

Again, all anyone not poor needs to do is hop in a car, drive to Planned Parenthood in Manchester CT, and get an abortion pill. They’ll do that for anyone who walks in the door who is less than 9 weeks, 6 days pregnant. If you’re under 16, you have to get counseling from a nurse or clinician. $556 to $662 payable on the spot.

All parental consent laws do is penalize poor people.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Again, all anyone not poor needs to do is hop in a car, drive to Planned Parenthood in Manchester CT, and get an abortion pill. They’ll do that for anyone who walks in the door who is less than 9 weeks, 6 days pregnant. If you’re under 16, you have to get counseling from a nurse or clinician. $556 to $662 payable on the spot.

All parental consent laws do is penalize poor people.

Your comment really highlights a critical point here ... there are still advising adults even when a teen seeks a discrete procedure. They’re not making this decision or having an abortion in an adult-less vacuum.

I realize certain ideologues view PP as Auschwitz, but knowing individuals who work with PP I can say our local clinics are solely focused on improving the outcomes for those which enter, whether that be terminating an unwanted/unsupported pregnancy, seeking birth control to avoid the former, or other services.

Why some on here think disclosure to MA courts is THE rational approach has me thinking they are pretty ignorant to the reality and not particularly loyal to the libertarian pundits/ideas which they hock.

[cb2008]

Originally Posted by bolehboleh

I have a few thoughts:

1. I strongly believe that no abortion should be performed after the age of viability (with some exceptions I'll address in my next point). I realize a baby can often survive outside of the womb after about 25 weeks, so I'm a little uncomfortable with the 24 week cut-off. I would be a little more supportive if they moved the cut off date to 20 or 22 weeks.

2. That being said, I do support late term abortions if the fetus has died and/or the mother's life is in jeopardy. That's a no brainer.

3.As for late term abortions related to the mother's mental health, I hope there are strict rules that will be followed before a doctor will sign off on a late term abortion.

4. Although I'm pro choice, I realize that abortion is a very sticky subject and I certainly understand why some people oppose it. Reducing a person's concerns about abortion to "you hate women" does nothing to advance the conversation.

5. For a little while, I wasn't sure how I felt about lowering the age to 16, but after much thought I think it's a good idea. The age of sexual consent in Mass is 16, so I also believe that a girl should also be allowed to have an abortion without parental permission at that age.

6. Nothing was "rammed through" - I really wish people would stop using that expression. The General Court passed the law, the Governor vetoed and the General Court overrode that veto. That's how representative democracies work.

Late term abortions are very very rare and are performed for fatal fetal anomaly.

https://www.mercy.net/service/fetal-anomaly/


To include this every time abortion rights are talked about is simply a distraction. It needs to be removed from the conversation.
People who oppose abortions should not have them. Consider themselves lucky that they have never been in that position for needing one either for themselves or their loved one and be afraid.