Like he** I'm going to pay these prices! (Boston, Cambridge: contractors, utilities)

[id77]

Originally Posted by massnative71

SO FAR OFF buddy. Have you not paid attention to this or other threads discussing the problem, extensively? It's a supply and demand issue, and the goverment's failure to help facilitate the free market in help meeting that demand and getting people from point A to point B. Nothing at all to do with "capitalism" vs. any other economic system.

I did speak to this. You flood the market with supply and you also drive out some of the quality in the process. You really think a Lexington or Wellesley school district will be the same with 1,000 more students in it? You think the people paying big bucks to live in a Weston are going to stay in Weston if their neighbors are mid-rise apartments or small homes on small lots?

The complaints aren't about getting some place somewhere in eastern MA. They want a good home in a good place at an affordable price. You cannot flood supply without also destroying the bar for what a good home in a good town is around here. If I'm wrong, then let's build a ton of condos in Everett and everyone will be happy. So yes, the problem very much is free market because that's what drives supply and demand. The free market follows the money, and there's no money in affordable housing.

Getting from A to B is a possible solution, but that's going to take a gob of money. You'd need to build the T out to most of the 128 towns and improve commuter rail. More highways won't solve the problem at all, so that's a non-starter.

[yellowstatus]

Originally Posted by id77

I did speak to this. You flood the market with supply and you also drive out some of the quality in the process. You really think a Lexington or Wellesley school district will be the same with 1,000 more students in it? You think the people paying big bucks to live in a Weston are going to stay in Weston if their neighbors are mid-rise apartments or small homes on small lots?

The complaints aren't about getting some place somewhere in eastern MA. They want a good home in a good place at an affordable price. You cannot flood supply without also destroying the bar for what a good home in a good town is around here. If I'm wrong, then let's build a ton of condos in Everett and everyone will be happy. So yes, the problem very much is free market because that's what drives supply and demand. The free market follows the money, and there's no money in affordable housing.

Getting from A to B is a possible solution, but that's going to take a gob of money. You'd need to build the T out to most of the 128 towns and improve commuter rail. More highways won't solve the problem at all, so that's a non-starter.

Exactly this. Boston is a prosperous city and there's a lot of very wealthy people in the area. They can easily afford the Weston house on a 2 acre property when 200 people could be housed on that same lot with a mid-rise apartment. Weston has its own majority supported local government that likes it the way it is. Unless a state level or federal level mandate overrides this status quo, the supply will be limited, and the winners of capitalism own the scare supply of housing because they have more money.

Despite being a big beneficiary of the current system, I support overriding the status quo from a social justice standpoint. Cambridge SFH is already at $1.5 million. Hate to see it double from here because of such restrictive housing policies.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by id77

I did speak to this. You flood the market with supply and you also drive out some of the quality in the process. You really think a Lexington or Wellesley school district will be the same with 1,000 more students in it? You think the people paying big bucks to live in a Weston are going to stay in Weston if their neighbors are mid-rise apartments or small homes on small lots?

You give people options. In other cities that have more effectively kept up with the demand, the wealthy somehow find a place to go there is well. It's never an issue. And we aren't talking about paving over Eastern Mass. with concrete New Jersey style. Smart growth/planning is possible if there is the will.

Originally Posted by id77

The complaints aren't about getting some place somewhere in eastern MA. They want a good home in a good place at an affordable price. You cannot flood supply without also destroying the bar for what a good home in a good town is around here. If I'm wrong, then let's build a ton of condos in Everett and everyone will be happy. So yes, the problem very much is free market because that's what drives supply and demand. The free market follows the money, and there's no money in affordable housing.

See above, and that is also part of the government's failure in its inefficient zoning policies and poor transportation planning as well as antiquated prevailing wage laws. Affordable housing need not be unprofitable.

Originally Posted by id77

Getting from A to B is a possible solution, but that's going to take a gob of money. You'd need to build the T out to most of the 128 towns and improve commuter rail. More highways won't solve the problem at all, so that's a non-starter.

It would have taken fewer gobs of money had our past "leaders" properly planned for today's needs which could have easily been anticipated. Can't change the past though...key is learning and not repeating past mistakes. It will cost a fortune, but a badly needed fortune. With better governance, we would be better able to afford it. Past/current waste/incompetency and misplaced spending priorities have left insufficient money remaining for transportation. It costs 3 X the amount of money to pave a mile of road in MA than it does in NH. Again, that is NOT capitalism going on there. Both the rail AND highway infrastructure are severely deficient, and the longer they get ignored the more it will cost in the long run.

[bostongymjunkie]

Originally Posted by massnative71

See above, and that is also part of the government's failure in its inefficient zoning policies and poor transportation planning as well as antiquated prevailing wage laws. Affordable housing need not be unprofitable.

This is huge. This isn't a failure of capitalism, it's a market that is being manipulated by policies that disproportionately benefit certain people. In towns, it's the "everybody wants to be the last one in the door" syndrome and shut out others. In Boston it's also zoning, but also the influence of big business and crony capitalism. Capitalism, like any other system, relies on ethics and if ethics run afoul the system takes a hit. We allow this to happen because too many people are not involved, they aren't informed, and they get hoodwinked by people who toss them a few politically appealing bones that look good but end up doing nothing for them over the long haul. And they do this to maintain power for themselves. As for capitalism, it has taken more people out of poverty around the world than anything else out there.

[BostonBornMassMade]

The solution is painfully obvious. More housing, millionaires tax/graduated tax, electrified commuter rail. Maybe regionalized school system.


People in MA who have the bulk of the wealth don't want it. None of it. Nothing more, nothing less than that. Just comesbdown to self interest or selfishness.

[masssachoicetts]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

The solution is painfully obvious. More housing, millionaires tax/graduated tax, electrified commuter rail. Maybe regionalized school system.


People in MA who have the bulk of the wealth don't want it. None of it. Nothing more, nothing less than that. Just comesbdown to self interest or selfishness.

yeah agreed. but you went a little too far with fenway sucks. fenway is like the best ballpark.

[Boston Shudra]

Originally Posted by id77

The problem is that's free market capitalism working as intended.

But it's absolutely not.

It'd be free market capitalism if there were no gov regulations about how much and what kind of housing can be built.

What we have now is an artificially constrained market. Not free in any sense.

[msRB311]

Someone made the comment that they shouldn't expect to live in the city or place they grew up in and its entitled to think they should. Not sure what to think on that. I think you do have to earn your way and I can see how someone who grew up in Wellesley or Weston might not be able to afford to live there now without being some loser. Maybe they are hard working but don't have 1.5 million for a house. Sure, it happens lol. The issue is that people have been placed out of places like southie, west Roxbury now it's Dorchester. Places they grew up in. Some maybe took the wrong path but many are hard workers.

My co worker recently let me know that he and his family are considering moving to Hyde park from roslindale because roslindale is too expensive now. They own their own condo so I'm not entirely sure what's happening there but they are looking for something that costs less due to rising costs. He and his wife both have good jobs, i actually thought they were pretty well off.

A couple with good jobs (senior managers at a university) really shouldn't be needing to downgrade from Roslindale to Hyde park.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by massnative71

It would have taken fewer gobs of money had our past "leaders" properly planned for today's needs which could have easily been anticipated. Can't change the past though...key is learning and not repeating past mistakes. It will cost a fortune, but a badly needed fortune. With better governance, we would be better able to afford it. Past/current waste/incompetency and misplaced spending priorities have left insufficient money remaining for transportation. It costs 3 X the amount of money to pave a mile of road in MA than it does in NH. Again, that is NOT capitalism going on there. Both the rail AND highway infrastructure are severely deficient, and the longer they get ignored the more it will cost in the long run.

To be fair, MA construction costs will always underperform NH due to the density differential.

This said, the cost per mile is over 2x that of other higher density states like NY, CT, MD, RI, etc. Something is definitely broken.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by masssachoicetts

yeah agreed. but you went a little too far with fenway sucks. fenway is like the best ballpark.

What's actually good about Fenway besides a racist past and 87 years of curse?

Really easy to list the reasons it's bad..