Medium-density vs low-density suburban neighborhoods (Boston, Andover: how much, houses, landscaping)

[thinkingotherthings]

Hi folks,

As my family continues to refine our house search criteria, one margin we've been thinking a lot about lately is neighborhood density. By "medium" density I have in mind typical neighborhoods in Winchester or Belmont, for example. By "low" density I have in mind typical neighborhoods in Lincoln or Weston, for example. (I don't want to fixate on the particular towns given in these examples as my question is more general; and I am aware that neighborhood densities may vary within a town.)

Initially we were gung-ho on a medium-density neighborhood – both my wife and I grew up in higher-density places, and while we know we don't want to live in a high-density neighborhood, the thought of living in a low-density neighborhood feels a bit isolating. However, we've come to question whether our enthusiasm for medium density is founded in measured analysis or simply in fear of the unfamiliar. As several wise posters pointed out in a previous thread I started, you don't typically forge meaningful friendships with your neighbors by living in close proximity to them – more practically, we expect to grow our friend circle through our kid's school and other kid activities (we currently have a baby), or town activities we get involved in.

So with that in mind, I am hoping to hear what people think are the pros and cons of living in medium-density vs low-density suburban neighborhoods. My current perspective is:

Medium-density PROS:

• shorter commutes (to school, grocery store, restaurants, shops, parks, etc), in general – but of course depends on exactly where you're going and how much traffic there is
• in line with the first point, easier for our kid to walk or bike to his friends' houses
• feels less isolated (but I think this is more psychological than of practical consequence)
• greater access to delivery services (Amazon, groceries, restaraunts) and ride-shares

Low-density PROS:

• Quiet! – zero chance of a loud neighbor moving in right next door who blasts music or has a kid in some garage band or mows their lawn at 5am on Sunday mornings
• more scenic / more greenery
• privacy? I think medium-density neighborhoods are private enough, but I suppose it can be nice at times to have even more privacy

One other requirement of ours is reliable access to high-speed internet. I'm not sure if that is less prevalent in towns with lower average density?

P.S. Astute readers might recall from previous threads I started that I had wanted to be close to a walkable downtown – I have long since given up on that as a criterion given my criteria and budget. Although I would still like to be a short drive to a walkable town center, which I think I can achieve in either a medium-density or low-density neighborhood.

[Apple Country]

Originally Posted by thinkingotherthings

Medium-density PROS:

• shorter commutes (to school, grocery store, restaurants, shops, parks, etc), in general – but of course depends on exactly where you're going and how much traffic there is
• in line with the first point, easier for our kid to walk or bike to his friends' houses
• feels less isolated (but I think this is more psychological than of practical consequence)
• greater access to delivery services (Amazon, groceries, restaraunts) and ride-shares

I'm in low density 495-land. It takes me 5 minutes to drive 2 miles to kids school.

Park aka conservation land is 5 minute jog down the street.

I was a 12 minute drive to Wegmans when I lived in Boston. I'm now a 13 minute drive to Market Basket. I do not miss carrying groceries on the T.

I've had Instacart and Roche Brothers deliveries and I see Amazon trucks all day and have never had trouble getting rideshare.

A middle ground might be a neighborhood where there are a bunch of kids.

[OutdoorLover]

Agreed, low density is quieter and more private, but the flip side to that is less of a neighborhood feel and less interaction with the neighbors (for better or for worse). I looked at a development in Kittery - the lots weren't huge, but the houses were tucked back into the trees with just a curving path cut through the thick trees for the driveway such that you could barely even see anything of the houses from the street, even if the houses were only set back maybe 25-30 yards, they were heavily screened from view. Some people only view neighbors as a negative - this would be great for them. I wasn't so keen on it.

[Guineas]

Sidewalks is huge. Low density places like Weston often don’t have sidewalks. That makes it much harder for you or your kids to go out for a walk etc.

I lived in medium density suburbs when I was in the Boston area and the advantage of sidewalks and walking distance stores and parks is huge. The kids also have friends within two blocks of us and can walk over. It’s not a psychological thing. Yeah the lots are smaller but there’s way more to do outside the house. The ideal is to be walking distance (15min or less) to a town center of a medium density suburb.

[gf2020]

As a frequent contributor to your previous threads, I will just say that I think your definitions of medium and low density are a bit off. Lincoln might qualify, with it's 2 acre minimum lot size, like Boxford. Weston is certainly not low density.

In the end, I don't think it makes much difference, especially for communities inside 495. None of the distances are so great in Eastern MA that anywhere is truly rural or isolated.

I do like to see that your house search is continuing! Good luck!

[Guineas]

Originally Posted by gf2020

As a frequent contributor to your previous threads, I will just say that I think your definitions of medium and low density are a bit off. Lincoln might qualify, with it's 2 acre minimum lot size, like Boxford. Weston is certainly not low density.

Lol. Weston is not low density? It’s 700 people/sq mi. Most of the residential areas have no sidewalks.

[simplexsimon]

What will happen is whichever house you decide on, you will sometimes say to yourself "it'd be nice if it was [the other way]" but then realize you'd be giving up [current pros].

Originally Posted by thinkingotherthings

However, we've come to question whether our enthusiasm for medium density is founded in measured analysis or simply in fear of the unfamiliar.

It doesn't have to be one or the other - people have their preferences. You know the trade-offs, you just need to pick which are important to you.

We went to one open house in Milton where my wife did not like how close the neighbors were, so we needed to be at least that far away from the next house. Some of our friends think we live in a rural wooded area now. Some think we are pretty close to our neighbors.

[gf2020]

Originally Posted by Guineas

Lol. Weston is not low density? It’s 700 people/sq mi. Most of the residential areas have no sidewalks.

Would you think of Andover as low density? It's 389 / sq mi.

Low density is Sherborn: 270; Rowley: 290; Boxford: 340. Not Weston.

[NewfieMama]

I live in Norwell, which I consider a low-density suburb (plots have a minimum of 1 acre), but live next to medium-density towns like Hingham and Hanover. I have two elementary-aged kids and have many friends with similarly-aged kids in neighboring towns. These are my bulleted thoughts in comparing them because I'm too tired to put my thoughts together in a more cohesive way:

- Even in medium-density towns, you have to live close enough to the town center/parks to walk to them via sidewalks

- If not close to town/parks, then it's really about kids walking to friends' homes. I have friends who live in neighborhoods and love it--lots of carpooling and their kids usually have a friend to play with if there is downtime. I have friends who live in neighborhoods and hate it. Other kids will show up at their door (or at their pool) all the time, then the parents have to be the "bad guys" if it's not a good time. Plus not all kids in a neighborhood are friends and it can lead to hurt feelings.

- Honestly, kids are in a lot of activities these days. My kids are in at least one activity per night after school. Weekends are pretty full, too. We do movie nights, pool parties, etc. with friends, but we all have to schedule it--it's rare that we would have free time at the same time. We have better luck scheduling our kids' time together by having them in the same activities vs. having the play at home.

- I feel like every town has its own "culture". I feel like people in my town value privacy, it's why we choose to live in a town with few sidewalks and larger plots where you often can't see any neighbors. I feel like we are all a bunch of introverts (I know I am) who keep to ourselves. My friends who live in neighboring towns where they are looking for closer friendships with neighbors are more extroverted than I am.

- For me, proximity to "stuff" isn't a big factor. Lots of towns with acreage minimums are still close to restaurants, grocery stores, and activities. When we were house hunting I did not want to see my neighbors, but also needed to be very close to the things I need day-to-day.

- The larger plots that come with less dense areas can be a real pain to maintain. Mowing, landscaping, cleaning up downed trees, leaf cleanup...it's all pretty to look at, but it's a pain. We use our yard all the time, but I don't love working on it...I have landscapers do a lot of it.

- I did not want to live on a street with sidewalks. But my street is a little bit busier than I was expecting, so it's actually difficult for me to go on a bike ride with my kids or walk my dog. I thought bucolic setting = no sidewalks needed, but that's not really the case. I hate having to load up the bikes every time we just want to go for a short ride. If I lived on a quiet street that connected to a park, I really wouldn't need the sidewalk, but I don't have that.

I think there are so many pros to both options. Obviously cons, too, but if it were me, I'd look at homes in both types of towns. You may find a house you love in a more low-density setting that is still close to everything you want and is a great fit. Or you might find something in a more dense setting, but the location is great and the neighbors seem nice with similarly-aged kids. No matter what you decide, there will be times you love it and times you wish you'd chosen the other

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by gf2020

Would you think of Andover as low density? It's 389 / sq mi.

Low density is Sherborn: 270; Rowley: 290; Boxford: 340. Not Weston.

Weston, not low density? It feels super low density to me. 700ppsqmi is a low density suburb anywhere in the US