Getting the beaten-old-house fatigue...now what? (Boston, Brookline: rentals, condos, mortgage)

[LeavingMA]

Originally Posted by syracusa

I do understand there is no new land to build on. Europe is the same. However, there is such a thing as RADICAL RENOVATION and that can be done. I believe it must be the high cost of living here and little money left over that prevents so many people from doing a severely needed extreme make-over to their old houses. In Europe this is done in spades now, to houses much, much older than what New England has.

You have it opposite. Part of the reason it is expensive to live here is because there is very little buildable land. Most is under conservation or strict zoning laws. If you look at subdivisions up in New England they usually only consist of 10-100 homes. Go down south and subdivisions will consist of 100's and 1000's of homes and you can still go 1 mile down the road and find more affordable housing. There just isn't much competition and it slowly moves people further and further outside of the city.

[redpanda]

I wish I had a solution for you, but I think you are finding out what most people who live here eventually discover: you're going to have to compromise. Do you want to tolerate the "boonies" to get a new construction home? Or do you want to tolerate an older home to get the kind of community you want?

There might be a compromise somewhere, but sadly I have no idea what it could be--I was surprised to see people volunteer ideas of places with newer construction homes under $500k.

Higher-end communities here tend to be mostly comprised of older homes, as I'm sure you've found. Like a previous poster said, the best land was all built up ages ago.

[snoopy2009]

In the charming, walkable, sophisticated North Shore small town I just moved to, there are a very few foreclosures of new construction that might fall into your price range. Those kinds of houses and the streets they are on tend to give me the wiggins (much as right-wingers like me must give you the heebie-jeebies), so I've not viewed any of them personally. But I know of one that was valued at about $800k that's now on the market in the $300s. Probably needs a bunch of work, and I'm sure it has steep fees, but I think it's still there. Maybe you've removed foreclosures from your search?

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by snoopy2009

In the charming, walkable, sophisticated North Shore small town I just moved to, there are a very few foreclosures of new construction that might fall into your price range. Those kinds of houses and the streets they are on tend to give me the wiggins (much as right-wingers like me must give you the heebie-jeebies), so I've not viewed any of them personally. But I know of one that was valued at about $800k that's now on the market in the $300s. Probably needs a bunch of work, and I'm sure it has steep fees, but I think it's still there. Maybe you've removed foreclosures from your search?

Snoopy,

We have not done any serious search on properties for sale. Only for rent.
On sale, we don't even know what's really out there, but considering that renting is cheaper than buying right now - what should we conclude?

Do you mind if I asked why those kinds of houses and the streets they are on give you the wiggins? This is not confrontational, I am just curious as what you are referring to. Is it the fact they are newer and character-less?
By the way, I have major right-wingers in my husband's family (from AL, afterall ), and I find them personally to be wonderful people. It's only some of the ideas they support that give me the heebie-jeebies.
Not all of them, just some of them.

[clevedark]

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time Syracusa. Your posts are wonderful to read nonetheless and I wish you were going to be my neighbor here in Brookline!

There was a poster recently who mentioned they were considering buying half of a two family home in Newton for around 500K (look in the "Is there a Prejudice Against Two Family Houses in MA? thread). Maybe you can switch gears and look for something like that--Newton might not be beyond your reach after all.

[syracusa]

Also, re: North Andover, is it all as rural as we have seen it to be?
Does it have a walkable downtown?

What is close to the area off of Salem Street, about 2 miles SE of Merrimack College...(besides lots of wild woods that block the light)? Any close downtown of anything? Any shopping square?
Any development, any public space or sign of civilization will do.

[snoopy2009]

Originally Posted by syracusa

Snoopy,

We have not done any serious search on properties for sale. Only for rent.
On sale, we don't even know what's really out there, but considering that renting is cheaper than buying right now - what should we conclude?

Do you mind if I asked why those kinds of houses and the streets they are on give you the wiggins? This is not confrontational, I am just curious as what you are referring to. Is it the fact they are newer and character-less?
By the way, I have major right-wingers in my husband's family (from AL, afterall ), and I find them personally to be wonderful people. It's only some of the ideas they support that give me the heebie-jeebies.
Not all of them, just some of them.

Well, I guess it depends on where you're looking. In many Boston-area towns, it might actually be cheaper to buy. But if you plan on staying only a short time, I'd definitely rent (as we did in the state we just left). Rent or buy, you should probably take a look in this town. I'll pm you with information.

I don't dislike new construction, but I tend to shy away from subdivisions. Even when houses are different, they tend to all share the same features and be set the same way. Often, garages are the most prominent feature, and on a house close enough to the street to allow interaction with pedestrians, the garage can act as a barrier (as opposed to a prominent porch). I also think of subdivisions as communities with enforced homeowners rules, which also can create the impression of sameness. None of these qualities are intrinsically undesireable, they just don't attract me.

We also lived in the Atlanta metro. Bought a house in Decatur off the square, which provided the perfect mix of rural (large backyard and trees) and urban (pedestrian friendly, artsy, walkable downtown). Roswell was anathema to me, but again, just a personal preference.

What's interesting is that you do want the walkable public space, but also the suburban element of a subdivision. Or am I off?

Please don't be put off by the above...they are just musings of mine. I've tried to describe before what exactly about most modern housing trends in the US I don't like, and this is about as close as I've come.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by clevedark

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time Syracusa. Your posts are wonderful to read nonetheless and I wish you were going to be my neighbor here in Brookline!

There was a poster recently who mentioned they were considering buying half of a two family home in Newton for around 500K (look in the "Is there a Prejudice Against Two Family Houses in MA? thread). Maybe you can switch gears and look for something like that--Newton might not be beyond your reach after all.

cleverdark,

Thank you for the kind words and yes, I wish you were my neighbor too. We were neighbor-hunting as much as we are house hunting, but it looks like we'll have to resign ourselves to the deers for now.

The thread you mentioned was started by me, from the naive comfort of our Atlanta townhouse, at a time when all we had were a few strategically taken pictures of two-family houses in Belmont, Arlington and other "it" walkable places. We committed the indiscretion of aspiring to them, little naive souls that we were.

Then we flew here and saw the truth (insert horror sound track of your choice here). Metaphorical illustration of the discrepancy between sales pitch and reality - below. Click the Evolution picture.

http://www.dove.us/#/features/videos/default.aspx[cp-documentid=7049579]/

Except that the girl is way kinder to the eye in reality than those two-family units we saw in person.

We also saw today what used to be an absolutely gorgeous Victorian house in Melrose. They certainly don't make them like that anymore on the cookie cutter line. Such a place renovated would be a jewel today (also out of our price range). Unfortunately, not only was it very dumpy, with problematic windows, but also NOT deleaded, which has legal implications for landlords renting to families with kids under 6. This limits our choices even more. So another one bit the dust.

We're returning to Atlanta with virtually zero choices, save maybe the North Andover one in the boonies - a very nice 1988 house, more than meeting our needs as construction in and of itself, but presenting severe danger to my mental health due to location.

[clevedark]

You make me laugh! (And how depressing that I referred you to your own thread.) And because you make me laugh, I'm going to be candid with you. Forgive me if I go too far, I don't mean to alarm you.

Just move into a tiny old dumpy apartment in Brookline or Newton (or Belmont or wherever) and be happy. I learned the hard way, I lived in a very nice big house out on the South Shore but was miserable because it wasn't the right environment for me or my family. Five years of waiting for things to get better.

There are lots of us suburban refugees in Brookline living in tiny, smelly, jam-packed spaces having given up something much larger further out in the boonies.

Plus people in Mass can perhaps be perceived by newcomers as painfully unwelcoming to outsiders. Apparently the newcomer is mistaken in this perception, but the loneliness can be palpable. Add that to living in the boonies and all of a sudden you're wondering what the hell happened to your life.

Just something to think about.... (And also, those tall trees can really get to you after a while--they hem you in , and you'll start smelling mold, etc.)

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by snoopy2009

I don't dislike new construction, but I tend to shy away from subdivisions. Even when houses are different, they tend to all share the same features and be set the same way. Often, garages are the most prominent feature, and on a house close enough to the street to allow interaction with pedestrians, the garage can act as a barrier (as opposed to a prominent porch). I also think of subdivisions as communities with enforced homeowners rules, which also can create the impression of sameness. None of these qualities are intrinsically undesireable, they just don't attract me.

Snoopy,

I completely understand and can assure you that I would love an unique, custom made house as much as your next discriminating customer. But in our price range, we cannot afford to include criteria related to intrinsic aesthetics or expressions of originality. We just want functional and updated enough so we can survive 21st century demands, good schools and no boonies. At this point my neighbors can have houses identical to ours as long as ours is comfortable and in good location.

Originally Posted by snoopy2009

What's interesting is that you do want the walkable public space, but also the suburban element of a subdivision. Or am I off?

Well, only a bit off. Ideally I would prefer walkable in an old-fashion kind of way. See Melrose, Belmont neighborhoods - no modern suburban subdivisions. I finally saw for myself what are the proverbial "American Dream" houses with the white picket fences of the golden fifties. Cute -I agree.

HOWEVER, if I am forced to choose between cookie cutter suburban developments and rural houses lost among wild trees, then I'd choose the former hands down.

Some of those areas we have seen in Andover and North Andover would look so much less scary if more trees had been cut down to set off the human presence. Not ALL the trees, but I would have loved to see SOME trees gone and a bit more manicuring of the land.
I know this is environmentalist heresy but that's what I feel.