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"I believe the minimum wage in Mexico is between MX$54-MX$57 per day." (theunbrainwashed)
There are many Mexicans, particularly in rural areas, who earn less than the daily minimum wage. Workers either accept the lower wage, or go hungry. Enforcement is frequently overlooked.
Regarding other commentary: I find the class distinction aspects of the discussion humorous, but I'm not going to take the bait.
There are a lot of underdeveloped countries in which wages and benefits are mandated only for industries that are themselves regulated. Jose repairs tires at the curb in front of his house, and is not regulated, so Jose can have a gofer hanging around, and pay him whatever they agree upon.
What I said is true. Middle-class Americans used to commonly have servants. Most middle-class housing built prior and up to the 1920s/1930s had/has sevant's quarters, servant-oriented kitchens, butler's pantries, butler access and stairways, etc. Even in small houses and condos.
The middle class having servants is even indicated in some black and white tv shows, such as Hazel.
Middle-class in America used to basically be synonymous with the "professional class". Middle class was doctors, lawyers, accountants, architects, business managers, small business owners, etc. Basically, what is considered the upper-middle/professional class today was the middle class then and is arguable the true middle class today.
Nowadays, the term middle class is overly used and applied to folks who really aren't middle class. I'm sorry, but a landscape laborer is not middle class, and is a modern form of servant. Landscape laborers are working-class, they serve the middle and upper classes. Maybe you're confusing "middle class" with "common worker". Working-class doesn't necessarily = impoverished.
I think you're wrong and it's because you aren't from the middle class. In the USA there is a big overlap and fluidity, families can have a dentist, a factory worker, a landscaper. Servants were for the elites, I know dentists and physicians that never had live-in servants. In Europe, the middle class might be the fallen aristocracy, in the USA the middle class are the vast majority of people. In the USA the middle class is made up of those descended from peasants and fallen aristocrats.
Physicians might be upper middle class, accountants can make only a little more than minimum wage. The true middle class doesn't get welfare handouts, are self-supporting with some left over for a few luxuries. Middle class generally aren't servants and they don't have servants, that's more typical of a two-class society.
My family has always been middle class, and I can assure you that the middle class in the USA was never known to have servants. No one, not myself, my parents, my grandparents, my great grandparents ever had a servant, and we're about as middle class as they come. I've never known any one middle class that had servants in the USA, that has always been associated with the wealthy class.
In fact it's common for middle class types to have done some domestic type work, a landscaper in the USA wasn't traditionally seen as a impoverished type servant before, it was a middle class kind of job.
Many larger middle class homes built before WWII had servants quarters and very small kitchens. The lady of the house did not work in the kitchen.
Highland Park, which is within Dallas Texas, it was originally a built as a middle class neighborhood for doctors, lawyers, business people, professions that were middle class. Today it is a wealthy neighborhood.
Mokan wasn't describing the middle class created after WWII but the middle class that was similar to Mexican middle class.
A full-time job that paid the equivalent of the American minimum wage (about N$800/day) would be considered a very good job in most of Mexico. I doubt my college-educated friends make that much.
The Mexican minimum wage is different in each state but averages about $50 pesos a day which is about $4.50 depending on the exchange rate.
The minimum wage is set to determine fines, how much us Gringos must receive in income to qualify to live here (250 times the minimum wage,) etc. It's probably very rare that anyone is paid the minimum wage.
In most MX states there is also a minimum wage for types of jobs and it is higher than the general minimum wage.
First, I would like to know how what I originally wrote had the proper capital letters and when it was quoted it doesn't have capitals.
Second, BS? Obviously another person who has never been in Mexico.
I've lived here for 7 years and I know other foreigners in this area who have been here for decades. They all love their doctors.
I have a friend who is in the hospital today for cervical surgery in the morning. She could travel to Texas but likes the doctor and the hospital here better. She's paying $13,000 USD out of pocket. The same surgery in Texas would cost several times more but she would have Medicare to pay most of it.
If you communicated with foreigners who live in Mexico you will rarely (never) hear any complaints about their Mexican medical care. Up North, doctors don't spend time with patients, they don't talk to them and hospitals are cold and indifferent. That isn't true in Mexico and people recover much faster with less pain medications.
I think you're wrong and it's because you aren't from the middle class. In the USA there is a big overlap and fluidity, families can have a dentist, a factory worker, a landscaper. Servants were for the elites, I know dentists and physicians that never had live-in servants. In Europe, the middle class might be the fallen aristocracy, in the USA the middle class are the vast majority of people. In the USA the middle class is made up of those descended from peasants and fallen aristocrats.
Physicians might be upper middle class, accountants can make only a little more than minimum wage. The true middle class doesn't get welfare handouts, are self-supporting with some left over for a few luxuries. Middle class generally aren't servants and they don't have servants, that's more typical of a two-class society.
You are wrong. In history, it was common for middle class Americans to have servants. Again, middle class housing stock built prior to and into the 1930s often has servant's quarters and features. This is accurate and a fact. Why this has changed I cannot explain, and it's complicated, but it has changed, so that explains why in your lifetime you've not run across folks with servants.
It is not true that the vast majority of Americans are middle class. There are some folks out there who want to believe America is a class-less society, but this is simply not so. Middle class is incredibly overused as a blanket term for the vast majority of Americans, but it isn't so. It just isn't and Americans have been becoming increasingly polarized and divided by class in modern history.
Sure, in history, prior to, say, the 1970s, American society was relatively class-less. The common folks AKA the working class were the majority. This was a time when a high school diploma would earn an individual a decent income and the American Dream. There were the common folks, AKA the working class, and the middle class (various professionals: doctors, lawyers, busness owners, etc.).
However, since about the 1970s - which was the peak of the historical scenario in the above paragraph - industrial jobs have been in vast decline in the United States due to globalization, outsourcing, and various other complex reasons. The job market changed drastically. Many semi-professional, white-collar jobs were created. More and more kids went to college. Then in the 1980s you had the rise of the yuppie lifestyle, which I'm sure was a very key point or perhaps the point when the polarization and divide between the nuevo middle class and pre-existing working class really took hold.
So there you have it, the common folks in the United States have become divided between the haves and have nots, the primary distinction being having a college degree. A college education has become the new high school education in some ways. In modern America, having a college degree is generally a requirement to be considered middle class. If you don't have a degree, you are most likely working class.
Now, for some facts. According to the 2000 United States Census, only 24.4% of Americans over 25 had a bachelor's degree (graduated college). Only 80.4% graduated high school.
So, as you see, if you consider the fact you generally need a college degree to be considered middle class in America, how can the "vast majority" of Americans, as you say, be "middle class"?
Here is an overview of class in the United States:
As for your comments about college-educated and white-collar folks intermingling, sure - that happens in the United States, but it's happened less and is happening less and less as the division between the middle class and working class grows.
Back in the day, when the common folks on average had a high school education only and could live a good life with it, it was more common for college-educated teachers and nurses to marry non-college educated men. This isn't happening as much anymore. It just isn't. Unfortunately, high school educations have become far less valuable and some folks out there consider somebody with just a high school education "uneducated", which I don't think is necessarily true and I think it's sad it's become that way. Ultimately, though, what has happened is a new middle/pseudo-professional/pseudo-white-collar class has risen in American society in modern history and they generally don't want anything to do with the working-class ways and lifestyles of their parents, grandparents, whatever. What's funny is many degreed folks are working blue-collar jobs and many more recent graduates can't find work.
So basically what I'm saying is there IS a divide. The middle class and working class are different, whether everybody likes to think themselves middle class or not.
As for WHY I think it's important to make the distinction between our 2 majority classes is because it seems the working class is being ignored, forgotten, and kept out of the limelight, which I don't think is good. The fact is not everybody is cut out for college or professional work and the working class needs to be heard. People need jobs and to make a living, even if they don't go to college or find professional work. Even the political party of the working class (democrats) has lost it's focus on unions and working-class politics in favor of advancing a socially liberal agenda...gay marriage, gun control, welfare, the environment, etc., the latter actually probably hurts the working class. In fact, many things the liberal democrats are doing nowadays is probably hurting the working class.
I've really enjoyed reading all your posts and makes me nostalgic for my country (sigh).
I came to the US in 1978 when I was about 8 years old and I go back ocassionally to visit some family members. I do miss eating from street vendors (tsk tsk) especially elotes preparados (yum!), aguas frescas! Tacos from a taqueria, en fin, so many things I miss I went back in time in my mind reading about the differences between Mexico and the US. I live in Texas so not too far from the border but with work and family I hardly get down there anymore.
Heres my say in this....................
You guys are just bickering back and fourth like your marred. You've discussed and proved the differences weeks ago.
Last edited by Mister Miaugie; 11-22-2011 at 10:08 PM..
You guys are just bickering back and fourth like your marred. You've discussed and proved the differences weeks ago.
I think you mean "Married" not "marred" and no one is bickering so why don't you go read some other threads?
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I went back in time in my mind reading about the differences between Mexico and the US. I live in Texas so not too far from the border but with work and family I hardly get down there anymore.
