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Old 06-13-2008, 09:57 AM
 
1,570 posts, read 2,072,293 times
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The problem in mexico is that it needs to be held down by the elite class. I hate to admit that since I am from an "elite" family in Mexico. But the truth is that the rich don't want to share and what ends up happening is, this is true but funny, that the kids of the rich end up becoming socialists. Many are like yeah lets help them out with socialism. Well what ends up happening is that the kids make the situation worse for the poor. And the poor grow poorer. Mexico needs more capitalists not socialists.
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Old 06-13-2008, 01:11 PM
 
Location: MTY, MX
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Really, you're in Mexico? Who are the socialists in the government? All are technocrats..!
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Old 06-13-2008, 02:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by antgar View Post
Really, you're in Mexico? Who are the socialists in the government? All are technocrats..!
No I am not in Mexico. I live in the states. My family lives in mexico and it's true that mexico's problems are the lack of capitalists and legitimate ones. Plus the lack of serious enforcers.
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Old 06-14-2008, 12:37 PM
 
75 posts, read 142,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 60-minutes-II View Post
The problem in mexico is that it needs to be held down by the elite class. I hate to admit that since I am from an "elite" family in Mexico. But the truth is that the rich don't want to share and what ends up happening is, this is true but funny, that the kids of the rich end up becoming socialists. Many are like yeah lets help them out with socialism. Well what ends up happening is that the kids make the situation worse for the poor. And the poor grow poorer. Mexico needs more capitalists not socialists.
Don't you mean the opposite? To my understanding, capitalism causes more poverty than socialism. Capitalism just generates more wealth for the wealthy. Socialism is meant to "control" and spread that wealth, at least in theory.
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Old 06-14-2008, 03:38 PM
 
1,570 posts, read 2,072,293 times
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Originally Posted by bubalu View Post
Don't you mean the opposite? To my understanding, capitalism causes more poverty than socialism. Capitalism just generates more wealth for the wealthy. Socialism is meant to "control" and spread that wealth, at least in theory.
Right supposely that is what socialism is. But whenever it is carried out by humans they have a tendency of ruining things. Like when you encourage socialism in an environment like mexico what ends up happening is that the most powerful corporations end up having a near 100% monopoly in their industry which cuts out the little guy. So if there is no competition what then happens? You either work for them or you don't. And if you do the companies begin to amass huge amount of debt or their leaders hide their wealth and pretend that they are watching out for you. Again not good for the people. Socialism ruins things more than it helps out and it will remain that way until technology advances more than people's greed. Which is a very hard feat to accomplish.
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Old 06-14-2008, 05:44 PM
 
75 posts, read 142,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 60-minutes-II View Post
Right supposely that is what socialism is. But whenever it is carried out by humans they have a tendency of ruining things. Like when you encourage socialism in an environment like mexico what ends up happening is that the most powerful corporations end up having a near 100% monopoly in their industry which cuts out the little guy. So if there is no competition what then happens? You either work for them or you don't. And if you do the companies begin to amass huge amount of debt or their leaders hide their wealth and pretend that they are watching out for you. Again not good for the people. Socialism ruins things more than it helps out and it will remain that way until technology advances more than people's greed. Which is a very hard feat to accomplish.
Interesting, I never looked at it that way. I can see some truth in that. I learned something new today . Then I guess it's a good thing Mexico's government is right-winged and not Socialist, the way Mexico is I couldn't see Socialism working the way it's supposed to.
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Old 06-14-2008, 08:52 PM
 
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Socialism requires money, unfortuntely for them, socialism does not spur innovation which drives consumerism which is at the heart of the money process. Socialism needs money to operate, but only capitalist can give it to them.

That is why you are seeing more and more privatization of industries across the world, the only ones that are not are the bone head socialists who still hang on to the beleif that government can be more efficent than the private sector.

The USSR recognized this too late, a stark example is farming where less than 5% of farms in the USSR were privately owned but supplied 35% of the staple crop.

China, Vietnam and others took note of this and started to allow for private business. Though many things are still nationalized, it is still not to the scale a a command economy and they have allowed private investments into many of these nationalized sectors.

Money drives innovation. Whether we like that or not, the reason we have what we have is because someone wanted money, had an idea, and marketed the product to get the money.

It is purely because of government interference in places like Mexico that there still is a rich/poor divide. They have very restricive foreign investment rules, poor small business friendly regulations and their banking system is not anywhere near the standard to support large scale loans that are needed to prime a productive economy.

Don't confuse right wing and socialist together, the whole left/right, socialist/capitalist comparison does not work together, especially when talking in context of another country. Same goes for the liberal/conservative argument.

The Soviet hardliners were considered strict conservatives in the sense of the word, 70 years before they were considered liberals.
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Old 06-14-2008, 08:57 PM
 
8,726 posts, read 7,425,664 times
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Originally Posted by bubalu View Post
Don't you mean the opposite? To my understanding, capitalism causes more poverty than socialism. Capitalism just generates more wealth for the wealthy. Socialism is meant to "control" and spread that wealth, at least in theory.
Take a snapshot of the world, which nations are the poorest?

There is a false belief that the pie is only so big, so if someone takes a big slice, someone is getting shorted on theirs.

The money the wealthy made came from their investments, risk and business ability. have you ever worked for a poor person?

Without those wealthy poeple, we would not have many of the things we have today. There motivation was profit, they provided a product whether it was oil, computers or medical, but they have provided something we all benefitted from.

It is a big myth and down right ignorance to suggest that it is because of the wealthy there are poor.
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Old 06-15-2008, 12:06 AM
 
75 posts, read 142,808 times
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Originally Posted by k350 View Post
Take a snapshot of the world, which nations are the poorest?

There is a false belief that the pie is only so big, so if someone takes a big slice, someone is getting shorted on theirs.

The money the wealthy made came from their investments, risk and business ability. have you ever worked for a poor person?

Without those wealthy poeple, we would not have many of the things we have today. There motivation was profit, they provided a product whether it was oil, computers or medical, but they have provided something we all benefitted from.

It is a big myth and down right ignorance to suggest that it is because of the wealthy there are poor.
What?? Did I ever mention that it's because of the wealthy that there are poor? I never said that, in fact, I embrace capitalism, I wouldn't like to live under any other form of government.
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Old 06-15-2008, 12:06 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,762,627 times
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Originally Posted by bubalu View Post
Don't you mean the opposite? To my understanding, capitalism causes more poverty than socialism. Capitalism just generates more wealth for the wealthy. Socialism is meant to "control" and spread that wealth, at least in theory.
I think what matters is if a large middle class can share in the Capitalism. People are motivated by money, they'll work at being educated, they'll work harder, be more inventive if they will benefit financially by it.

Capitalism for a very few doesn't work well, and socialism doesn't work well because it doesn't motivate anyone. The kind of Capitalism where everyone can invest, use his money, where every man owns his own labor and so can rise to middle class or above is the best system all around.
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