Some people DO enjoy Miami/South Florida (Hialeah, Hollywood: cul-de-sac, middle-class)

[florida_guy1234]

I've used this site for some research and to satisfy curiosity in the past and happened to stumble across the Miami forums. Wow. At times I felt like I was reading the Book of Revelation, and at other times listening to a spoiled 6 year old brat moan about why the world is unfair. It inspired me to open an account just to offer up a (lukewarm) defense of this city, which some posters seem to happily equate to Baghdad or Kabul. (And before a wave of trolls attack my credibility, I have lived in Dade County for the last 10 years, in a few different neighborhoods, currently live in the Kendall area close to the Dadeland. I am single and do not have kids, so I am definitely NOT claiming to speak for an "average" family, if there is such a thing.)

First of all, my advice to these angsty, hateful posters is MOVE. For your own good, for your own stability, prosperity, and health. Common sense dictates that if living in an area literally sickens you in all aspects, you should probably discontinue living in that area. Maybe this isn't financially feasible for a lot of these people (or perhaps they are already in the process of moving), but it seems to make much common sense to me.

Yes, Miami does have a larger-than-usual set of problems for a city of its size, and developments over the last few years have seemingly exacerbated many of them. Yes, this isn't the "friendliest" city, the cleanest city, the safest city, the most aesthetically appealing city, the most financially sound city, and on and on and on. In fact, it's close to the bottom in many areas. But regardless, many of us are still satisfied to call Miami-Dade home. On an earlier thread a poster made the comment that "there are people who enjoy Miami, but they tend to not be as vocal as those who hate the city..." I am one of them. I am a middle-class, not rich, business professional, NOT Hispanic/Latino, fluent in French but know only a few phrases in Spanish, born and raised in the Midwest (Kansas City) but have also lived in NYC, Atlanta, and Boston. I am quite happy with Miami and, if I had any real "gripes", it would be that lack of Spanish tends to limit my social options, and that the drivers here can be lunatics (still, I've seen worse!) And yes, there are racist Latinos in Dade County who will get uptight and refuse to speak English, but reading over this forum has made it quite clear that there are plenty of equally virulently racist Caucasians sharing ground with them. *Shrugs* It goes both ways. As an educated middle-class white, I tend not to criticize immigrants who may have lost everything and are only here to obtain a better life, even if some of these immigrants may be total *****holes. The last time I checked, that was part of this small thing called the American Dream.

As for my personal reasons for choosing Miami, they are varied. Part of it had to do with corporate interests. I spent a good portion of my life dealing with snow and ice for half of the year, and I will never go back to that again. I enjoy the pace here, the restaurants, shopping, entertainment venues, etc. As cliche'd as it might sound, the diversity is sort of refreshing. Overall, South Florida is liberal and accepting; I've never lived in a classic "Bible Belt" environment, but as I'm openly gay, I really don't think I could stomach it. Overall I can't say that Miami "blows me away" but, unlike some of these posters, I do enjoy living here and I am not considering moving unless business or a natural catastrophe leads me elsewhere.

I'm not going to engage in comment warring with the people who have so viciously attacked this city and county, because that's rather pointless; I'm firm in my opinion/lifestyle choices, just as they are firm in theirs. My point is: if you are considering moving to Miami or Greater South Florida, visit first, spend some time here, and then rent before buying if possible. Take everything that you read here, including my comments, with a grain of salt; no two people will see an international city in the same light. Do not come to Miami expecting the Great American Paradise, and do not come to Miami expecting the glamorous, debauchery-ridden playground of Will Smith's song (unless your last name is Hilton.) And yes, I'll be the first person to say that if you're married with 2 kids, only making $35-$45K and expecting to live in a "nice" neighborhood here with a quaint middle-class white picket fence lifestyle, you'll probably be out of luck. But do not be scared away from Dade County by people who would prefer to live on a farm in Rolla, Missouri (or among those hicks in North Florida) and really do not need to be in this county, or any county with more than 100,000 people.

And don't forget, there's always Broward and Palm Beach counties as well. If you're considering a S. Florida move, just do your homework and you can't go wrong, whether you decide to live here or not. I have a few friends who live in the Weston area (a suburb in western Broward County) and love it there. Hopefully this will be helpful and establish some "balance" in the Miami discussions .

[CiXeL]

understand that california is wayyyyyy more accepting of gays than here. if you think this is good california or hawaii will be frickin paradise. everyone has a gay coworker or two at their jobs in california so its considered normal, here if youre a guy and put highlights in your hair or anything people will think you are gay and talk sh-t behind your back.
oh and from what i know of the gay community from my best friend in highschool being gay and my girlfriend having lived with a monogamous gay couple in laguna beach for 12 years i can say that people are safer out there. this place is aids-ridden and dangerous for any kind of relationship.
i remember a few guys here told me, some schools are known for their sports teams, hialeah high girls are known for having aids.

i just wish people had some humility here and were at least appeciative for being in the US. i guess this is why i really like the haitian population down here. so many of them ive met have seemed so grateful just to be here. those are the people who should be here, hard working, honest, people who appreciate the wonders of this place. not people who float ashore and have everything handed to them so they develop a sense of arrogance and take everything for granted.

[lauralei2]

Johnsonk422,

I enjoyed your post. It was well said. I live in Broward now, but grew up in Hialeah (really).

[tallrick]

I have had a lot of gay friends when I lived in Miami. It wasn't as bad as it is now, this was south beach in the 80's. They all loved it, at least initially. Then in the mid-90's prices skyrocketed and salaries stagnated. Some went inland to Mourningside, others to Ft lauderdale/Hollywood. All have left south Florida now. Why? Like most gays they wanted a better life. The income wasn't giving them the enjoyment they wanted, and homophobia was getting in the way. Unless you live in a gay area, the locals will call them names, and there's always the gay bashing. Finding a suitable boyfriend is all but impossible, Miami guys only want to "hook up". It was so bad that one friend moved to Minneapolis MN and found the tall (and rich) boyfriend of his dreams. He was so over the phonies in Miami driving BMW's and living with their parents. The boyfriend wonders why anyone would actually want to live in Florida, the companies he deals with don't even go to Miami as a convention destination anymore.

In order to enjoy Miami you have to be from somewhere a lot worse, which most people are. If you were born there and live for more than 30 years you will want out as your expectations will never be met. Without a wealthy person or persons to sponsor you, forget the American dream in Miami. Yes you have plenty of sun, clean air and a bit of ok water. Sure there's a small strip of so-so beaches that can be fun between sewage overflows, yes you have sex offenders living under the Julia Tuttle causeway, yes you have chickens living outside the Miami-Dade courthouse. It's Miami where the main cash crops are condos and cannabis!

[gabry76]

Really no offense, I hope you won't misunderstand me, but it's known wolrdwide (and I mean worldwide!!) that Miami has always been some kind of paradise for the gay comunity, especially in the '90s South Beach was the center for many gay artists, remember that Versace had his own "villa" right on Ocean Drive where he got murdered. So no surprise that you like Miami...but I think you'd better correct and say South Beach...that's the only part of Miami that people really enjoy.

[tallrick]

Also is it any conincidence that south Beach was initially depressed, and is the only part of Dade county with historical buildings? Evidently Barbara Capitman was right to want to prevent the city of Miami beach from demolishing and redeveloping the whole area. Look at downtown Miami, the latest redevelopment will fail just as previous efforts have. Take away Miami Beach and what's left for the tourists???

[gabry76]

Originally Posted by tallrick

I have had a lot of gay friends when I lived in Miami. It wasn't as bad as it is now, this was south beach in the 80's. They all loved it, at least initially. Then in the mid-90's prices skyrocketed and salaries stagnated. Some went inland to Mourningside, others to Ft lauderdale/Hollywood. All have left south Florida now. Why? Like most gays they wanted a better life. The income wasn't giving them the enjoyment they wanted, and homophobia was getting in the way. Unless you live in a gay area, the locals will call them names, and there's always the gay bashing. Finding a suitable boyfriend is all but impossible, Miami guys only want to "hook up". It was so bad that one friend moved to Minneapolis MN and found the tall (and rich) boyfriend of his dreams. He was so over the phonies in Miami driving BMW's and living with their parents. The boyfriend wonders why anyone would actually want to live in Florida, the companies he deals with don't even go to Miami as a convention destination anymore.

In order to enjoy Miami you have to be from somewhere a lot worse, which most people are. If you were born there and live for more than 30 years you will want out as your expectations will never be met. Without a wealthy person or persons to sponsor you, forget the American dream in Miami. Yes you have plenty of sun, clean air and a bit of ok water. Sure there's a small strip of so-so beaches that can be fun between sewage overflows, yes you have sex offenders living under the Julia Tuttle causeway, yes you have chickens living outside the Miami-Dade courthouse. It's Miami where the main cash crops are condos and cannabis!

I totally agree with you! I think you can enjoy Miami only if you come from a worse part of the world or a boring town somewhere in the US. I see that many people who enjoys here and are american usually come from the midwest...well I might understand that because unless you live in Chicago, the rest of the midwest is like a desert compare to Miami. But I know some people who moved from Chicago a couple of years ago and they are going back later this summer and they told me they made the biggest mistake of their life moving here!! The bottom line is that if you live in a developing country of course you will like Miami, you will like it also if you live in a boring small town of 2,000 people, but if you live in any major other city of the US there is no way that you can like Miami except for the weather. But if yuo don't like the winters, go to California...Miami is a waste of time!!

[MobyLL]

Johnsonk422,

Beautifully said. I had considered writing something similar, but figured it was pointless with all the negativity. I will add though that my feelings toward living here are probably similar to yours but I am not gay (married, two boys).

I think one of the most insightful things you said is this:

My point is: if you are considering moving to Miami or Greater South Florida, visit first, spend some time here, and then rent before buying if possible. Take everything that you read here, including my comments, with a grain of salt; no two people will see an international city in the same light. Do not come to Miami expecting the Great American Paradise, and do not come to Miami expecting the glamorous, debauchery-ridden playground of Will Smith's song (unless your last name is Hilton.) And yes, I'll be the first person to say that if you're married with 2 kids, only making $35-$45K and expecting to live in a "nice" neighborhood here with a quaint middle-class white picket fence lifestyle, you'll probably be out of luck. But do not be scared away from Dade County by people who would prefer to live on a farm in Rolla, Missouri (or among those hicks in North Florida) and really do not need to be in this county, or any county with more than 100,000 people.

If someone wanted to shop at Walmart and eat at chain restaurants and have a 3000 sq. ft. house on a cul-de-sac, they would have plenty of opportunities to do that in Miami-Dade. But (for the sterotypical USA! USA! American) they would hate it, because the house on the cul-de-sac would be way more expensive than suburban Indianapolis or Atlanta, etc. The traffic would be horrible getting to that Walmart or Applebees, and a lot of the other people around you would not share your cultural background, language or interests.

I think Miami would appeal to people for a variety of reasons, but I think one important key for someone who is born and raised in the U.S. to be happy here is to look at Miami as an opportunity to experience, learn and appreciate people from other cultures and backgrounds. Not that people who immigrate to the US should just be give carte blanche to do as they want and not respect the US or its citizens, but honestly most of the immigrants in Miami are not hateful people that despise the US and want to spit on the people who are born here as some posters would have you believe.

I am not hispanic, speak minimal spanish, and do not live in the most expensive areas of Miami. I live in Shenandoah which is a mixed neighborhood of some nice houses, some modest houses and some pretty crappy houses with small apartment buildings scattered about. Probably about 85% of the population is hispanic (mostly Cuban, I think) with a few Asian-Americans, non-hispanic whites and African-Americans mixed in. But although I would also only offer a lukewarm defense of Miami as a whole, I love this neighborhood (we have lived here 4 years). Our neighbors are great, they are outside a lot and we see/talk to them (in English!!!). We help each other out, taking care of pets, checking on older neighbors, lending tools, etc. We rescued a dog, mostly Lab, just before we moved to this neighborhood. She dug out of our yard (6 months old when we found her, lot of energy) a couple (OK, maybe 3 or 4) times. People from the neighborhood knew us and the dog because we take her for walks everyday and we do have sidewalks to walk on here. She was returned to us by various neighbors every time within minutes (don't worry she doesn't dig out anymore). For restaurants/activities we can walk to 8th Street (Calle Ocho) or Coral Way, Shenandoah Park and the local elementary school.

Miami does have a lot of negatives, the traffic is horrible, drivers are often reckless/rude, a lot of it is ummm... not scenic (alright horribly ugly). But it is also just a lot more interesting culturally if you look at it in a positive way than most places in the US. And a good deal of Miami is beautiful (yes most of those areas are very expensive to live in/near, but still it is there and you can visit the beaches and the sky/clouds are stunning almost every day.

CiXeL -- Man, please move back to LA. Please. Just do it. I have to admit though if I lived in Homestead I would probably hate Miami also. What you have done is like someone visting LA and seeing Santa Monica, Malibu, Bel Air, etc. Then moving to LA and living in a crappy part of San Bernadino or East LA or something... of course they would be dissapointed and hate it. Got to agree with you on the Coldplay thing though, radio here sucks! Gotta get Sirius/XM.

Nothingman -- Boston is truly a great city, hope you will like it there. Got to agree with you also though on Dave and Jay or whatever their names are on 93.1. They are the worst on air personalities I have ever heard anywhere, no exaggeration. A complete embarrasment.

Tallrick -- I feel for you and the way Miami has changed from what you knew, but it seems like you would not like any city at this point. Maybe I'm wrong though.

VPCats -- I have really enjoyed reading your posts. You have been like a lone voice in the wilderness at times... thanks for bringing you perspective to some of these discussions.

For people that are thinking to moving to Miami for whatever reason, they deserve to hear a rational discussion. Miami has lots (lots!) of problems, but it is not the worst place in the world, or even the country (at least for some of us).

[Chelito23]

I also live in Shenendoah, off of 17 Ave between Coral Way and 17 Aves. I agree that this is one of the more liveable areas in Miami...fortunately I was lucky enough to move in when the hosues still cost 150K 9 years ago. Now they go for 500kish. But my point is, we are surounded by garbage. Living or walking beyon SW8 st is out of the question (ghetto). To the south of Coral Way (behind Publix, going towards Coral Gables) is an insanely overpriced area with run down homes, duplex, triples, quadplexes and illegal conversions. On the east is the Roads, which is a millionares version of the Roads, and surpisingly they have our same problems being bordered by East Little Havana on the north. All of the homes may not costs millions, but to afford a mortgage on one of them you would need to earn about 1 mil.

In any event, the most important thing that someone would have to ask themselves if they are moving to Miami is what do they consider important in life:

If you share interests in these areas, you will do fine:

• "Pimping your ride a la MTV"
• Regeaton music
• A party/club lifestlye
• Warm to hot weather all year
• Heavy traffic
• Agressive driving
• Community apathy
• You are good at ignoring problems whether they affect you or not
• You do not desire meaningful relationships with neighbors or coworkers, or being treated nicely at stores
• Beaches
• A very diverse, Hispanic and Caribbean Island background city
• Shopping
• Do not plan on having kids while you live here
• Single family homes next to 30 story high rises
• Virtually no urban planning
• A corrupt city and county commission
• A high level of unhappiness in the community (higher than most cities)

If you dislike the list you just read, then you will really regret a move here. Come and see for yourself.

[CiXeL]

chelito that sums things up rather nicely.

i mean theres no unreasonable reason why so many reasonable people hate this place.
that was fun to say

i never EVER realized id be moving to another country when i moved here.
im going to try broward. we're in the starting planning stages and we have a year left on the lease. we're also going to be checking out orlando. i overheard our HR department talking smack on americans. i cant make this stuff up.