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In Spain itself there are people who are from Normans or Irish, and the arabic moors we often see with black hair.
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Ireland, England, Wales and Scotland were settled from Spain 6.000 years ago.
They sailed there in makeshift leather boats during the neolithic period. (Mitocondrial DNA studies).
Moors are not "Arabics". Moors are North Africans, berberiscs, originally pertaining to the white race but mixed (some) with African slaves.
Dark and black haired people are Mediterranean, living there since paleolithic times.
Arabs are white.
Muslims in Spain were driven out after a war that lasted 800 years, and the remaining converts (most were ethnically Spanish) were expelled in the XVIth Century and massacred. Jews were forced to convert and many were massacred.
Most blonde and fair haired people in Spain, Italy, France and Ireland are kelts (gauls, "Galicia"). An ancient culture, not a race, that comprised most of western Europe 2.500 years ago.
"Germanics" are recent invaders and not very predominant in Western Europe, except, of course, Germania (although there were many kelts and Alpines in Germania (From the Rhine to the Vistula). The tribes invaded Roman provinces in 4th Century.
Germanic invaders occupied Brittany (Roman province inhabited by Kelts invaded by Anglo Saxon barbarians), Hispania (Visigoths, Suevians and Vandals), France (Franks), Italy (Ostrogoths and Lombards).
Those barbarians were not numerous in comparison with Roman population, so English are not Anglo Saxon, French are no Francs, Italians are not Ostrogoths, Spanish are not Goths, etc.
Slavics were barbarians that arrived much later.
In Northern Italy there are more blondes because they are "Kelts" (Galia Cisalpina).
"Normans" were vikings that settled in Normandy, France, also in Scotland and parts of Spain (Seville) where they became mercenaries. (9th - 10th Century). Later, Normals from Normandy invaded England in the 12th century.
Cubans are not Spaniards.
I told you before that you always forget to mention the hundreds of years of mixing between Spanish and Africans since the early 16th century....
Again...
I'm referring strictly to the 1.000.000 Spanish immigrants that Cuba received from 1898 to 1933 that left Cuba from 1959 to 1980 or so.
I'm not referring to the Cuban population at large.
Cuban population is like the Argentinan population, mixed,excluding recent immigrants arrived during the last 120 years.
Last edited by Leovigildo; 05-06-2009 at 03:34 AM..
Again...
I'm referring strictly to the 1.000.000 Spanish immigrants that Cuba received from 1898 to 1933 that left Cuba from 1959 to 1980 or so.
I'm not referring to the Cuban population at large.
Cuban population is like the Argentinan population, mixed,excluding recent immigrants arrived during the last 120 years.
So you are saying that those Spanish immigrants did not mix with the Cubans? that is imposible... do you have the web link (Source) that shows the supposedly 1.000.000 Spaniards that arrived to Cuba that refused to mix with the Cubans and then migrated overseas?...
Do you have the source..the link...that specifically says that they did not mix with the Cubans? ..... because I dont see people that looks like white/Euro Spaniards in Miami.... all the Cubans that I know are mixed....
Probably the first generation white Cubans fled to Spain... if their parents were Spaniards they were able to obtain the Spaniard/Euro citizenship and probably left to Spain *your case for example*.
That is not the case with the Cubans in Miami... all of them are mixed.
leovigildo, how would you compare the quality of life in Spain vs Miami....
I know you have lived there for many years...
I am considering my options... I could get the italian passport and live there.
I have family in Barcelona and Malaga and they love the country... I have a cousin who lived in Miami and then moved to Germany and he says that life there is different... the system...
Do you consider Europe to be a better location to raise a Family..compared to Miami.
Miami is not USA (there are fantastic cities in USA to raise a family)
I just want to know what you think about Miami vs Europe...
No, I was born in Spain
My parents lived there with my grandparents and they all returned during the 50's.
I have a brother that was born there.
Spanish lived mostly in cities in Spanish colonies, with Spanish Clubs and Centros Españoles and Spanish repartos, segregated areas. The places are still there, now packed with people that are not Spanish.
Of course, there were Spanish that married non whites, but they generally were poor.
I have family in Mexico and Argentina and it's just the same there.
No, "they didn't migrate". Their businesses, lands and factories were nationalized, and since they were not "public servants", they left.
If the Cubans you see in Miami are all black or non-white, it means that you live in a very bad area. I read that you live in Fointenebleau. No wonder.
When I lived there during the 70's, most Cubans there where Spanish and as white as Castillian soap. Fountainebleu was a nice place occupied by Americans, Cubans and FIU students. Now is C.A. Before Mariel.
Those people now live far away, and their former space is occupied by mulatto Cubans, very old cubans from the first wave and illegal Central Americans.
Last edited by Leovigildo; 05-06-2009 at 05:18 AM..
I think that if you want to start from scratch, the US is a much better place.
The US is a new country and they value merit.
Here everything is "Mafia", "Influence", "Families", "Political connections".
Too much Tammamy Hall here, but once agains, "Omerta" reigns...
At least in the US sometimes they open windows and air the place...
As to living conditions, those things are so subjective.....
To raise a family...
Problem is that you need a lot of money here to live in a nice, quiet place, to send your kids to a nice private school....
Depends on many things..
Yes, the system here is different, you don't need a car as intensively, there's good public transportation, insurance is not so expensive, free medical services (but I have private medical insurance just in case), etc.
Last edited by Leovigildo; 05-06-2009 at 04:32 AM..
Arabs belong to the Semitic branch of the 7 to 8 groups of people loosely called "Whites".
All people conquered by Islam during the 8th Century were called Arabs, and some call themselves Arabs, but they are not ethnic Arabs.
For example, Egipt, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia, etc, etc, are not Arabs, but muslims.
Arabs live, since Classical times, in Jordania, Siria, Lebanon, Palestina and the Arabian Peninsula.
The 15.000 or so muslims that invaded Spain in 711 (a country with 7.000.000 inhabitants ruled by Visigoths) were berberiscs. I insist, white people, and Arabs from Siria and as far as Yemen.
There was no real invasion, there was a mass conversion to Islam (including even Gothic nobility) since at that time Islamic rule was far better that the Gothic Monarchy.
There were 30 Gothic kings from 415 to 711 and none of them died of natural cause.
No, not theories. Arabs (and also berberiscs from North Africa) (the oldest Christians, by the way) were part of the Helenistic and Roman Empire and were Roman Subjects. They were civilized and formed part of the Western Civilization (whites) when Germanics were doing it behind a bush.
They are now in a very low period, in a decadent semi-comatose period, but they were the ones that during their Golden Age preserved all Classical Civilization.
sigh
You need to read books, lots of them.
Quote:
For example, Egipt, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia, etc, etc, are not Arabs, but muslims.
By Egipt I am going to assume you mean Egypt? If so then yeah your wrong. The majority of them ARE Arabs. Arabs poured into North Africa displacing Berbers. That is why you still have Berbers there who are separate citizens. The Arabs living in North Africa have family trees, and trace their linage back to the peninsula of Arabia. There are TONS of books you can read that will explain the Arab invasion of North Africa. Turkey, errr they have never EVER been called arabs, they are Turks (from Asia) and some are kurds, never have they been called or concidered to be arabs. Iran, errrr what? They are fars i.e. persian with some kurds and arabs along the western boarder, there are also balushi people, turkic people there as well. Pakistan, indonesia, errr what?
As for what a Arab is, you have the quote wrong. A Arab is anyone who speaks Arabic. That was statement said to have come from Prophet Muhammad. Arabs have always had a mix lot, some are as white as white and some are black. That has always been that way. Read early accounts by early Arab writers they classify skin color a lot in their writtings back then. As for them being civilized, I had to hold my chuckle back on that one. You really should take the time out to read the early reports of how those people lived.
Also the Romans only ruled parts of the middle east my friend. They for example did not rule over the hijaz or the khaleej (the gulf). In the Southern part of Arabia Ethiopia ruled over the Arabs for a LONG time.
Oh and there is a ethnic group in West Africa called moors, give you a hint, they had something to do with the invasion of Spain. My family is from W. Africa, this is school grade information 7 yrs olds learn there.
I have tons of books you could read to educate yourself on the matter. One of the best is a book from I think the 13th century by Ibn Ishq called the life of Muhammad. It is one of the earliest books written on that time period still in existance.
Oh and you mentioned Lebanon, some of them don't consider themselves to be ethnic Arabs. There were other groups there before Islam spread to those people. I mean for example some of them decend from Assyrians (yes they still exist), and many say they come from the Phonecian people. There was a DNA study done on the people of Tyre to try and see if they can match their DNA to samples they have from Phonecian DNA. Just like in North Africa the Arabs poured out of the Southern parts of Arabia conquering and mixing in with other groups. That book I mentioned will break down the history of the Arabs and in what parts of Arabia Arabs originated from and what tribes they consisted of etc. Also that book I made mention of is one of the leading authorities on early Arabic culture. I have others but this one is big enough to keep you going for a few months. I should add I read, write and speak Arabic (I guess I am a honorary arab)
Man I really found what you said about Cuba from reports of your grand father interesting. Now I have to file them away in my suspect info file. Becuase if they are as "factual" as your knowledge of the mid east is, then man I guess I need to go check out Cuban history for myself.
I did take a Cuban history class in university though. Havana was amazing before the embargo and all that mess. If it could raise itself back up to what it was, that could become a problem for Miami, but as others have said, Miami needs to stop relying on such a fickle industry as tourism.
From your zipcode, I know where you live, and if you are making statements like "Miami is not the USA" and "all Cubans in Miami are mixed," you need to get out of Sweetwater and Fountainbleau more often. I grew up in Kendall/South Miami and the Keys and the great majority of my Cuban and Cuban-American friends were from non-mixed white families with very recent ancestry (3 generations, usually) that dates back to Europe. I am of European ancestry myself, have lived in Spain, and have plenty of European friends who know that there are plenty of European-origin Latin Americans, including many Cubans (a minority on the island of Cuba) and a significant majority of Cubans and Cuban-Americans in Miami. STOP GENERALIZING AND ACCEPT THAT ALTHOUGH MANY CUBANS ARE MIXED, MANY ARE BLACK AND MANY ARE WHITE. I simply do not care that you observe all mulatto Cubans in your working-class neighborhood full of recent immigrants. Almost all pre-1980 Cubans and some post-1980 Cubans do not fit that description.
About your possible move to Italy, it is a beautiful country and some of my ancestors came from there. Italy offers a pretty high standard of living, but know that if you are moving there as an immigrant without much money, you will experience a good deal of chusmerÃa if you live in working-class areas. Honestly, there is chusmerÃa everywhere in the world. It's not particular to Latin Americans or Miami and is quite widespread in Europe and North America, where the average citizen is not enlightened, sophisticated, or well-traveled. If neither you nor your girlfriend speaks Italian, why would you move to Italy? It isn't going to be easy to get a job that pays a middle-class income without speaking Italian. If I were you, I would move to Coral Gables/Pinecrest/Kendall/Miami Lakes/West Broward or to an affluent suburb outside of Washington, Boston, or NYC. Another suggestion would be Spain, as there are some beautiful, very family-friendly areas within central-city Madrid and to its north and west. If you are interested in that, I can give you more info...
Last edited by Marlin331; 05-06-2009 at 07:40 AM..
I think that you are a very learned man, but you are confusing some of the concepts I threw in my post.
You said that your family is from West Africa, Mauritania?
I'm talking about "ethnic Arabs", not conceptual Arabs. I know that for Islam, an Arab is anybody that speaks Arab, "Al Arabi". But I'm talking from a ethnic standpoint.
Egiptians are not Arabs, Egyptians have been Egiptians during the last 4.000 years. As to the fact that Arabs displaced Egyptians, nonsense. Greeks, Hellenistic and Romans did not displaced Egyptians, much less muslims.
I know that in North Africa there are many that claim to be "true Arabs" (Morocco), but that difference is now diffuse. And yes, there are the "moriscos", muslims expelled from Spain, and yes, here I found large important diferences because "moors" were just average Spanish whose only crime was being Islamic at the wrong place. They still live in Morocco, they still have Spanish names and they own the country.
Yes, the Roman occupied the fringes of Arabia, it was called "Arabia Felix" because they traded in myrra and were very wealthy. They also occupied nearer Arabia, the empire of the Nabatheans. They occupied Palestina, Phoenicia and Mesopotamia (Irak), but those are not ethnic Arabs. They also occupied part of Parthia (Persia) to open a way to China, but it was a failure.
Of course, Lebanese, Lebanese are the descendants of Phoenicians, and of course, many of them don't consider themselves Arabs and probably they are not. Just as Syria, in Syria, a entirely Arab country inhabited by western cicilized white people, many descendants of crusaders, many christians, they say (jokingly) that they are crusaders or "Romans".
Well, of course, I'm only talking from a entirely ethnic standpoint.
Last edited by Leovigildo; 05-06-2009 at 08:35 AM..
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My family is from W. Africa, this is school grade information 7 yrs olds learn there.
