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Location: I will be escaping Suck City and landing in Tampa in December
346 posts, read 910,693 times
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As healthcare costs continue to explode, as healthcare continues to be the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the country....we won't be able to afford the current system we have. Univ Healthcare is a necessity.
....we won't be able to afford the current system we have. Univ Healthcare is a necessity.
Yeah, if one person can't afford it them mandating it for 300 million people will sure solve the problem.
Universal health care = rationing and government paperpushers deciding how much health care you are allowed to have based on formulas and life expentancy. In England they had a ploicy that in order to receive a very expenice treatment for a type of progressive blindness you had to go blind in one eye first before they would approve the treatment. many people went blind before the public outcry was finally enough to overturn the policy. That's how bureacrats work. No thanks.
If they use the formulas that have been floated around they will take the cost of a treatment and divide it by a person's remaining life expectancy. So, if a treatment cost $400,000 and a perso nis 40 and epxected to live to 80 then the cost is $10,000 per year. If the limit is 10,000 per year then the perso ngets the treatment. But wait. Waht if the person is a black man who's life expectancy is only 73. Now the cost is $12,121 per year. Sorry. You are over the limit. No life-saving treatment for you. Is this policy racist? The paperpushers will say no, it is just math. Of course things will get worse for those that alreay have a shorter life expextancy since they won't be gettign as much treatment so those groups' overall life expectancies will get shorter still. Welcome to government run health care.
Yeah, if one person can't afford it them mandating it for 300 million people will sure solve the problem.
Universal health care = rationing and government paperpushers deciding how much health care you are allowed to have based on formulas and life expentancy. In England they had a ploicy that in order to receive a very expenice treatment for a type of progressive blindness you had to go blind in one eye first before they would approve the treatment. many people went blind before the public outcry was finally enough to overturn the policy. That's how bureacrats work. No thanks.
If they use the formulas that have been floated around they will take the cost of a treatment and divide it by a person's remaining life expectancy. So, if a treatment cost $400,000 and a perso nis 40 and epxected to live to 80 then the cost is $10,000 per year. If the limit is 10,000 per year then the perso ngets the treatment. But wait. Waht if the person is a black man who's life expectancy is only 73. Now the cost is $12,121 per year. Sorry. You are over the limit. No life-saving treatment for you. Is this policy racist? The paperpushers will say no, it is just math. Of course things will get worse for those that alreay have a shorter life expextancy since they won't be gettign as much treatment so those groups' overall life expectancies will get shorter still. Welcome to government run health care.
Yet "government run healthcare" (as you put it) works just fine in other countries and honestly, I challenge you to poll any of those countries on whether they'd swap their socialized healthcare for a "for profit" system like ours and I guarantee you that it will be a resounding "NO!".
As for the UK, it doesn't work like that. You don't wait for "approval", nor do you deal with any bureaucratic agency to get healthcare (you deal with your doctor). The British NHS is a damn fine institution and despite its flaws and despite the inaccuracies that are spread by those resisting any form of universal healthcare, it actually works and doesn't discriminate based on one's ability to pay. The bottom line is that yes, European nations pay more in taxes, but those taxes go towards healthcare, which ensures that you won't go bankrupt or lose everything you own because you just so happen to get sick and end up drowning in medical bills.
If you want proof, just look at the average life expectancy of a US citizen vs. other countries and you'll see we're falling short. Oh, and it's not just because of our diet & lifestyle, because many Europeans actually smoke more and have access to unhealthy foods.
Honestly, if I became seriously ill, I would rather seek treatment elsewhere, where I know doctors aren't motivated by just $$$.
Location: Lots of sun and palm trees with occasional hurricane :)
8,293 posts, read 16,159,358 times
Reputation: 7018
I work in healthcare and when I was in NY, we had Canadians crossing the border all the time because they could not get the treatment they "needed" soon enough through Canadian channels.
Sweden pays like 50% of their income in taxes in exchange for healthcare, child care, and whatever other social program.
Physicians in latin american countries are not nearly as glorified as they are in the US and are much more accessible BUT there is a social tiers structure.
Doesn't Massachusetts have some sort of "socialized" healthcare system? Mandatory assignment or something like that? How is that working there?
I have a very close friend who has lived in Brazil and Europe (namely Spain and Germany) for many, MANY years. She does not like their healthcare systems, but she has her free healthcare card still and if she runs into any problem that she can't afford here (lives in Miami Beach now), she's has no qualms getting on a plane and getting treated there. She has homes in all 3 places. My question would be, will she have time to get on that plane.
I have heard that Israel has the best system. Physicians there have to "volunteer" part of their week to public service and tend to patients at the "public-at-large" institutions and clinics. They, however, also have, and are encouraged to have, their own private practice. So basically everyone is served, the haves and the have nots.
I work in healthcare and when I was in NY, we had Canadians crossing the border all the time because they could not get the treatment they "needed" soon enough through Canadian channels.
Sweden pays like 50% of their income in taxes in exchange for healthcare, child care, and whatever other social program.
Physicians in latin american countries are not nearly as glorified as they are in the US and are much more accessible BUT there is a social tiers structure.
Doesn't Massachusetts have some sort of "socialized" healthcare system? Mandatory assignment or something like that? How is that working there?
I have a very close friend who has lived in Brazil and Europe (namely Spain and Germany) for many, MANY years. She does not like their healthcare systems, but she has her free healthcare card still and if she runs into any problem that she can't afford here (lives in Miami Beach now), she's has no qualms getting on a plane and getting treated there. She has homes in all 3 places. My question would be, will she have time to get on that plane.
Sweden's taxes don't just go towards healthcare. You must understand that European countries have very extensive "safety nets" when it comes to social welfare, plus they extensively fund mass transit and higher education, which is far more affordable than here in the US.
Regarding the United States, I don't know what the answer is to solve the healthcare crisis. This is not Sweden and clearly, there needs to be a more "American" approach to resolving this issue.
Honestly, I believe that healthcare should be in the "public" realm, but whether or not that would be workable in the United States is another matter.
Location: Lots of sun and palm trees with occasional hurricane :)
8,293 posts, read 16,159,358 times
Reputation: 7018
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCreass
Sweden's taxes don't just go towards healthcare. You must understand that European countries have very extensive "safety nets" when it comes to social welfare, plus they extensively fund mass transit and higher education, which is far more affordable than here in the US.
Regarding the United States, I don't know what the answer is to solve the healthcare crisis. This is not Sweden and clearly, there needs to be a more "American" approach to resolving this issue.
Honestly, I believe that healthcare should be in the "public" realm, but whether or not that would be workable in the United States is another matter.
For starters....people have to become more conscientious about their health. Physicians have to stop doing unnecessary tests because they're afraid of being sued.
Physicians can't come out of medical school $100,000 in debt and still need to go through residency (# of years varies by specialty) and then fellowship (# varies again).
Medicine in the US had always been "lucrative", until HMOs came around and even so, it still is. Somebody has to pay for the luxury cars, the mansions, the private schools, the travel, etc.
There are so many reasons why healthcare here is expensive and basically it is unmanageable at the rate we're going.
So now you have Nurse practicioners, physician assistants, nurse anesthetists, therapists....taking the place of your "family" doctor. These people still make over $200K/yr but they are replacing physicians who no longer want to deal with the bureaucracy for the pay.
We really need a change here. Medicare won't be around when we need it even though we've been paying into it for our retirement well-being. People have lost their retirement savings, their homes. As you get older, who is supposed to foot the medical bills that come naturally with aging?
And we're supposed to be such a advanced nation. We put people on the moon, we butt into other countries' problems, but we can't give everyone healthcare.
For starters....people have to become more conscientious about their health. Physicians have to stop doing unnecessary tests because they're afraid of being sued.
Physicians can't come out of medical school $100,000 in debt and still need to go through residency (# of years varies by specialty) and then fellowship (# varies again).
Medicine in the US had always been "lucrative", until HMOs came around and even so, it still is. Somebody has to pay for the luxury cars, the mansions, the private schools, the travel, etc.
There are so many reasons why healthcare here is expensive and basically it is unmanageable at the rate we're going.
So now you have Nurse practicioners, physician assistants, nurse anesthetists, therapists....taking the place of your "family" doctor. These people still make over $200K/yr but they are replacing physicians who no longer want to deal with the bureaucracy for the pay.
We really need a change here. Medicare won't be around when we need it even though we've been paying into it for our retirement well-being. People have lost their retirement savings, their homes. As you get older, who is supposed to foot the medical bills that come naturally with aging?
And we're supposed to be such a advanced nation. We put people on the moon, we butt into other countries' problems, but we can't give everyone healthcare.
Agreed 100%.
You're right -- there are a million and one reasons why healthcare is so expensive here in the US. IMO, the insurance industry is largely to blame though, along with excessive greed and complete and utter mismanagement at all levels.
There really is no easy solution to this -- and I fear that the situation will worsen before it gets better.
Healthcare in the US is far too "fragmented" and complex. There's far too much focus placed on diagnosis, unnecessary medication and there's just too much paperwork. Perhaps more focus should be placed on preventetive medicine, i.e. encouraging people to be healthy and go for regular checkups, along with dealing with medical problems long before they become an Emergency Room problem (as is the case with many of the uninsured and underinsured).
Would a fully socialized healthcare system work in the United States? I somehow doubt it, but there has to be a happy medium somewhere, which would ensure that everyone has access to affordable healthcare.
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Yeah, if one person can't afford it them mandating it for 300 million people will sure solve the problem. 
We put people on the moon, we butt into other countries' problems, but we can't give everyone healthcare.
