[jimdc58]

What is the social climate like in Sault Ste. Marie? Is it conservative, liberal, ultra-religious, or what?

[mariatherese]

I'm originally from the U.P. I lived in the Soo from age 8-12, but spent most of my life in a town about 40 miles south of there. Were I am from, there is no movie theater or shopping center, so we frequently drove to the Soo. I have some family there now that I visit occasionally.

So, I am pretty familiar with it.

I would say it is mixed, but definitely leaning towards conservative. As with all of the UP, it is cut off from the rest of the world and people tend to be a bit more narrow-minded. They label people easily, very cliquey. I personally don't care the Soo. I find the people to be awkwardly anti-social and, well, jerks. I just don't think they are very nice there. It lacks that small town friendly feel that the rest of the UP has. I love being a Yooper, but I don't think Sault Ste. Marie represents that culture very well.

I've always said that the Soo thinks it is a big city with it's attitude, but doesn't even realize its just a small town in rural Michigan. Basically, its the biggest turd in a small bowl.

Now, I know I sound terribly negative! It's not a horrible place by any means. I have met many great people there and if I had to live there today, I'm sure I could be happy. It's just I would never pick that place to live if i had a choice, and the only reason being the people.

I just wanted to give my honest opinion. I'm sure I'll be getting a bunch of wild replies now about how much I suck. LOL

[jimdc58]

Is the climate, and the people any different on the other side of the border (Ontario). Also, is there anywhere you WOULD recommend in upper Michigan?

The biggest problem I face is that I love being out in nature and away from the city, but my views are generally open-minded and liberal. It's a difficult situation to find.

Where do you live now. Do you like it?

[mariatherese]

Oh, man- join the club! I am in the same situation... which is why I am on this forum, looking for that perfect place with a lot of nature, seclusion, but open-minded, friendly people. I love the area where I am from so much, but I long for a more liberal mindset. Does such a place exist, I wonder? Perhaps we should keep each other updated on our search!

As far as Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario- I only visited that area as a child, so I can't comment on it. But, winters are very harsh in the Soo, that I do know. Guess it depends on what you can handle.

If I had to live anywhere in the U.P. it would probably be Marquette. I would say that is the most liberal town there (another college town). I've heard good things, though I have never lived there, only visited. But it would be worth looking into. Still, anywhere in the U.P. a lot of the people are very... simple. You may call them rednecks, yes, but I love them just the same! LOL.

I lived in Traverse City (northwest Michigan-lower peninsula) for 3 years and absolutely loved it. I have many friends there and may be moving back. It is gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous. And the people there are wonderful. It is mixed with conservatives and liberals, but a good amount of liberal people for such a small town (around 10-15,000). They have weekly anti-war marches. Some of my friends run a popular magazine devoted to creating positive social change and environmentalism. They have 2 or 3 organic grocery stores. Plus, the new film festival started by Michael Moore that seems to be a gigantic hit. Real estate in TC can be a bit expensive, but living on the outskirts is totally doable.

Ann Arbor is probably the most liberal city in Michigan. I am not really familiar with it, though.

I live in the greater Detroit area now- and I hate it. I came here for school but I am leaving as soon as I get the chance. I miss the woods, water, and most of all friendly people. Southeast Michigan sucks.

Also, I am wondering, since you and I are both searching for the same things, where are you now and why do you not like it? I have been looking into Oregon. But, I'm afraid of missing all the water! there is no place like Northern Michigan *sigh*

[jimdc58]

I currently live in Ohio, which is just about the same as the climate you speak about in Michigan. Lots of rednecks. I live in Medina, which is yuppies in their Hummers, bible thumpers, and, of course, rednecks. There is one small liberal community I know of (Oberlin), but I'm ready for a change of job and of state.

I was interested in Michigan because there are some beautiful areas in the state. I also found the idea of living near Canada attractive, especially if things keep going the way they are here in the states.

Another of my favorite areas is the southwest, because I find the desert relaxing in the same way I find the water and the woods relaxing. But it's also redneck-haven.

Oregon might be interesting, but I'm guessing the coastal regions are kind of expensive. Am I right? I know that both Oregon and Washington get more conservative the further inland you get, but that's about the extent of my knowledge. Maybe you could relay me any info you find on Oregon.

Amazing that you mentioned the organic markets. That's another thing I like about the city...there tends to be more of a chance of finding something other than the local Piggly Wiggly....and of maybe finding some good health food or Middle Eastern restaurants.

All in all, I have to say it's pretty hard having it all in this country....fresh air AND open minds don't seem to be a common combination.

I'm all for sharing our searching efforts, though.

[mariatherese]

Well, my dad lives in Montpelier, OH (NW corner of the state) born and raised. Lots of family there. So I know the area a bit. Yes, very conservative. In comparision to NW Ohio, Traverse City would seem very liberal.

Now, knowing where you are from, I doubt you will find anything different in Sault Ste. Marie... or the UP for that matter (but like I said, maybe Marquette- I just don't know the area that well). Though it is much more beautiful than northern Ohio IMO. I still say TC or Ann Arbor. But there could be other places I do not know about.

I also love the SW. Especially Southern Utah. I have always been drawn there. But yes, conservative again. Let me tell you what I am finding about Oregon: Portland is one of the most liberal cities in th US right now. Its full of hippies and young indie rockers. Portland is considered the "greenest" city in the US- the most urban parks, sustainable design, best transit system, and people there really care about things. environmentalism is huge there, so is supporting small businesses, etc. They have the biggest used book store in the US I think- its a big deal to locals. But it still has a small town feel. It is the cheapest city to live in on the west coast. It is more expensive, but not that bad. I have never been there, this is just what everyone tells me.

Well, surrounding areas of Oregon are supposed to be gorgeous. Hiking, biking, skiing... you name it. There are smaller towns in Oregon that are very liberal: Eugene, Ashland, Sisters to name a few. So I don't know if you are thinking of relocating that far, but it's what I'm doing! But that doesnt mean there arent great places in Michigan, so keep your search up! I just want to head out west.

[mariatherese]

anyways, I found this image and thought it might be helpful to jimdc58. Following what state is red or blue can be misleading. this is a county by county breakdown of the 2004 presidential election. looks to me like the marquette area voted democrat. don't know if this will really be an indication of the area, but perhaps it will shed some light on things?

[jimdc58]

Thanks for the map, Mariatherese. (Glad to see they removed the rude message that someone posted in reply to your previous message...I had sent you a private message, as I didn't know if he was going to be a problem.)

this is a liberal site that rates some cities:

Turn Left: Liberal Friendly and Unfriendly Places (http://www.turnleft.com/geo.html - broken link)

Hope you at least find something in them of interest.

[chiroptera]

jimdc58, sounds like you and I are looking for the same locale...and mariatherese, I landed in SE MI by accident and don't care for it much. Except I paid cash for my (cheap house in the hood; Flint's East side) which allows me to save for moving and getting re-established elsewhere. And I have built an excellent business here.

You used the word "simple" to describe folks around the Soo; good descriptor. My ex had a house in Harrisville (between Tawas City and Alpena) and while it is beautiful and people are really friendly and nice, provincial doesn't even begin to describe it. jimdc, if you're anything like me, you would get a bit stir-crazy living there fulltime. The west side of MI seems more copascetic, from what I've seen. I do like the seasons here and enjoy winter. Yes I'm weird.

I'm also considering the PNW. Check out Astoria, Long Beach and environs. The Columbia River & the Lewis and Clark trail bisect Northern Oregon and Southern Washington there, right on the ocean. Property is much cheaper on the WA side of the river, it's progressive and friendly, lots of old hippies and blue collar working folks, real laid back. Gorgeous, if you don't mind a fair number of rainy, cloudy days.
The affordable - which depends on your perspective I guess - coastal areas don't have great job opportunities. Astoria etc is mostly fishing and tourism. I have a friend there and visited once in winter. It's a quiet little city without the tourists!
Another thing I liked was how dog friendly Astoria is. First time I visited, I drove out with The Dog. Many of the downtown stores welcome dogs in; I even took him into a bank. We're not talking a purse dog either, he's a very charming Rottweiler.
Oh, and there's a great used book store downtown. I don't think there's a Walmart though, which is a big plus in my book.
Is the used book store in Portland bigger than the Strand in NYC? That place is just massive. I love used book stores.

I lived 17 years in Colorado. Miss it too, but the Front Range has become very expensive and overcrowded. I couldn't afford to buy back the house I sold there and yes selling it was a biiig mistake.
There's always Baja California. Another place I could move if I could work there.

[mariatherese]

I lived in Colorado for a year and loved it, have always wanted to move back, but the cost of living is so high and I missed the water. So, I was hoping the PNW would be the answer, but it looks like real estate is way overpriced in Portland and lots of Oregon. My dilemma is that we are young and just starting out on our careers, looking for a place to call home, but every place we like we can't afford a home. I don't want to be a renter forever!

But, my fiance is in construction, and I am in graphic design, so I'm thinking that we could really do OK anywhere. Quality of life is far more important to me than money. Just give me enough to eat, I'm alright.

So, anyways, I'm thinking of just starting in Portland to get my bearings. Rent is affordable there, so maybe after awhile I will move to a smaller Oregon or Washington town and establish roots there. I'll check out the WA area you mentioned, too. And I have always wanted to go to Astoria because my favorite movie, The Goonies, was filmed there.

I have never been to Oregon, let alone Portland, all the info I have gotten is from research. But seems like everyone is saying that bookstore is gigantic. Pretty sure I heard it was the biggest in the US. I love used book stores, too.

Yes, I love the great lakes, but I think it's time to move on. Stir-crazy is a very good word, too.