[Siberia]

If democrats get their proposed 9% top rate income tax passed to "solve" the $1.8 Billion dollar state deficit for 2008...for all those "super rich" making $150,000 per year.

Head off doubling of middle-class tax (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070819/OPINION03/708190347/1008/OPINION01 - broken link)

Sure to ensure recently graduated doctors, lawyers, and such higher paid graduates leave the state immediately after getting their diploma...

And can someone explain how doubling the state income tax attract higher income, higher tax paying new citizens to the state?

Keep your eyes peeled on the inevitable future increase in Michigan state income tax if you are considering moving to Michigan soon...

[tuebor]

Of course we can trust the editorial page of the Detroit News to give a fair and evenhanded treatment of this issue...

I hope nobody's appendix burst from laughing too hard at that last statement. Seriously, where is this 9% figure coming from? Sounds like the writer deliberately picked the most alarming scenario from any number of possibilities.

Take a look at this MI Treasury Dept. document, and turn to Exhibit 22 on p. 39. It contains a breakdown of 2004 income tax receipts from income groups earning over $50,000/year.

http://www.mich.gov/documents/IIT_2004_167686_7.pdf

Look at the column for adjusted gross income. If I'm reading this right, taking just an additional 1% of the adjusted gross income of taxpayers making over $50,000 would raise the 1.8 billion needed to cover the deficit. And of course if we accept the hypothesis of a progressive tax, many other scenarios are possible, but I don't see why we'd have to raise anybody's taxes to 9%, based on these figures. While you're looking at that chart, take a look at the last line--the one for incomes over $1 million. Very interesting.

Of course, if we don't get a progressive income tax, raising income taxes across the board by slightly less than 1% would cover the deficit.

If I'm misinterpreting these figures, I hope someone will explain where I'm going wrong.

[bugbox]

The Michigan Department of Agriculture has mandated that all cows be tagged on the ears of the animal for identity reasons. The Amish won't except this because of there religious beliefs and are leaving to a business friendly state This state however is totally against business! and always will be. Teachers unions state gov employee's ,and UAW will be the only one's left.

[Siberia]

Originally Posted by tuebor

Of course we can trust the editorial page of the Detroit News to give a fair and evenhanded treatment of this issue....

detnews is one of the two or three sources that can get any information at all from state legislators. They have no reason to lie on subjects that are public knowledge if one digs deep enough. All the law proposals are available via the Internet...so detnews could easily be held accountable if they discussed false law proposals in their articles.

Also, I would question why they would take the time to make a picture of the new tax table if they did not have the information on goood source:

Detroit News Online

Originally Posted by tuebor

Of course, if we don't get a progressive income tax, raising income taxes across the board by slightly less than 1% would cover the deficit.

If I'm misinterpreting these figures, I hope someone will explain where I'm going wrong.

1% would seem to bring in about 1.57 billion if the 2004 numbers stand in 2008. Yet if the majority of taxpayers only see say a 0.4% income tax increase, then a "progressive" graduated system would need to be in place to make up the huge $1 billion dollar shortfall. Thus 9% could easily be needed if only 10-20% of the "upper-middle" class are held accountable for "solving" the shortfall.

The good news is graduated tax won't change easily without a ballot measure. The bad news is once everyone gets their income taxes increased in 2008, and then are promised lower taxes later if they vote a graduated tax in 2009...then the graduated tax will get passed in 2009 or 2010. Then lawmakers can immediately change the graduated tax percentages without a ballot measure to whatever they want...once the constitution has been amended by the people to allow a graduated system. So, so easy to fool the voters with short term gain for long term risks...like a bunch of cattle being led to slaughter...

[Siberia]

Originally Posted by bugbox

The Michigan Department of Agriculture has mandated that all cows be tagged on the ears......Teachers unions state gov employee's ,and UAW will be the only one's left.

Sounds to me that the cows should leave the state too...

[Cliffie]

Well if the News & Freep keep their heads and don't let people go berserk with the scare talk in their Letters columns, there is no reason there is going to be a mass exodus...MORE of a mass exodus.

Chasing the Amish out with a stupid cow-tagging law is ridiculous. Can't they get a note from the bishop or something? You realize that if they leave that'll be the end of affordable organic chicken wings in the grocer's refrigerated case! One more reason to go vegan...

[Phacops]

Hmmm ..... as one who will be moving to Michigan and would be impacted by this, I only have to say that a progressive tax would be very welcome.

Living in a state with a "flat" tax that is lower, I see the disparities created by the upper middle class, and particularly the wealthy, in their drive to create public risk while privatizing profit.

I expect that we must all pay for our civic responsibility and feel that it is in my best interest to have a strong public society and not one driven by private greed or religious obsession. My quality of life depends on living in a state where people are not driven by the economic whip and are offered the educational and recreational opportunities of a free and equal society.

What is going to attract the best that are willing to contribute to Michigan's society: a race to the bottom where everybody but the wealthy are thrown under the bus, or a responsive public sector concerned with the well-being of all citizens? I'd vote for the latter and think that everybody in my position or blessed with more income has responsibility for our public health.

See to a healthy public sector and the people who value it will enrich Michigan both economically and socially. The people I have met in Michigan who are not rich are practical enough to create better than what they now have.

As an aside, and one who has read both the Detroit News and Free Press (when it was an independent paper), IMHO the News is a neoconservative mouthpiece little better than Fox News. One does not need to tell lies to distort the truth.

[jimdhen]

Originally Posted by Phacops

I expect that we must all pay for our civic responsibility and feel that it is in my best interest to have a strong public society and not one driven by private greed or religious obsession. My quality of life depends on living in a state where people are not driven by the economic whip and are offered the educational and recreational opportunities of a free and equal society.

A well-written satire or you are in the wrong country. Communists and Socialists have tried this and it failed. You want the government to decide how to spend my money so others can enjoy the ride. I rather like the "economic whip" thanks.

[TaxBait]

Originally Posted by tuebor

... If I'm reading this right, taking just an additional 1% of the adjusted gross income of taxpayers making over $50,000 would raise the 1.8 billion needed to cover the deficit. ....

Under a progressive tax the portion of income below 50K would not be subject to the higher rate. Based on that table you'd need to increase the rate by 2.5% above $50K to collect an extra $1.8B. Still, 6.5% is quite a bit less than 9%.

Another thing they should look at taxing pensions and Social Security. If I understand the tax code correctly, those items are exempt no matter how high your income. So not only do we pay extremely generous retirement benefits to state employees, they don't pay a dime in taxes on it. I know a couple who are both retiring from teaching. They will be sucking down $8K/month tax free while I struggle to pay double the property taxes (since I haven't owned my house long) and 3.9% income tax on less than $2K/month. The simplest way to tax pensions & SS fairly would be to use federal taxable income. An added benefit would be deductions for medical expenses (another area where MI brutalizes the poor and diabled) and mortgage interest.

[Siberia]

Originally Posted by Phacops

I only have to say that a progressive tax would be very welcome.

My quality of life depends on living in a state where people are not driven by the economic whip and are offered the educational and recreational opportunities of a free and equal society..

You welcome a progressive tax, yet want a free and EQUAL society? So if, for example, I make say $100,000 per year, and you make $10,000...my state taxes of $4,000/year is not equal enough in the current "Flat rate" system versus your $400/year state taxes? Instead, perhaps we should make it PROGRESSIVE....and tax "them there rich" at 6.5% or higher? So then we can have $6,500 verus $400....or even better, $9,000 versus $400?

LOL...it would be a free society for some, but definately not an EQUAL society. Progressive taxes promote mediocracy, as pentalizing those have a gift at making money will ultimately force them to evaluate the insanity of working 80 hours per week only to fork most of it over to a socialist society that constantly cries "tax the rich" whenever governmental deficits constantly occur...