[joey71]

Originally Posted by One Thousand

Of course, because someone doesn't have your base values, they must be lying...

No, nobody would be okay with their income being cut. However, if there was a need to cut wages, atleast the option would be there and the job would still be in MI.



The difference is that most people in a non-union shop recognize that a job is a blessing; not something owed to them. They don't use phrased like "some people only have two gears: slow and reverse." In a non-union shop, a person doesn't get their choice of OT based on their seniority, but on their ability. In a non-union shop, there isn't a shopwide culture that encourages you to turn your head to drug and alcohol use on the job.

I worked in a couple union shops. I grew up with UAW workers as family and neighbors. I know what your crowd is about.

If they started making reliable cars, then Consumer Reports must have made some mistakes this year.

The reason it's American labor that failed is that we're uncompetitive (hourly wage, labor laws and taxation) with the rest of the world. That's all.



Overpriced labor forced them to overcome them?

There goes the generalization!! I have taken 5 freaking drug tests this year for different job sites-- health care and automotive.
There is a difference from the non-union and union jobs--
non-union could give a crap less if you smoke dope or had a couple of beers during lunch--
union jobs it is not tolerated and if you fail drug or breathalyzer you have no employment for 6 mths.

Yea you see the whole job site/factory with liquor bottles and people in the corner smoking dope-- SURE!!


YOU DONT KNOW MY CROWD--

You were raised on union wages and your family made a fair living from it --quite hypocritical on your part I would say.

Oh right and they dont cut wages in other states outside of Michigan -- SURE

I know of many guys that are blessed to have a job and not ONE DAMN CONTRACTOR OWES ME OR ANYONE ELSE A JOB!!!


However they do owe me 40 hours of pay for 40 hours of work paid according to CONTRACT THAT WAS SIGNED BY THE CORPORATION!!!!

Take a look at the building trades, they are far different than that of any other labor organization, they wont go to bat for irresponsible behavior, companies will not tolerate non-producing workers, and there are many safety regulations that must be adhered to or you will be escorted off of the job.

One-Thousand - whatever and whenever you get a chance you bash Michigan -- have a great one!!

[One Thousand]

Originally Posted by joey71

There goes the generalization!!

The world is filled with them. When you do something besides insert screws for a living, you find that generalizations are a requirement. They're practical and necessary. Welcome to the real world.

You were raised on union wages and your family made a fair living from it --quite hypocritical on your part I would say.

Jesus forgives. Why can't someone as lowly as myself forgive myself for my immoral upbringing. Because I was lost, must I never be found?

Oh right and they dont cut wages in other states outside of Michigan -- SURE

They do. Just like the price of the product of your labor must be occassionally cut to continue competing in the market, so too must the price you demand for you labor be cut to stay competitive.

Again, welcome to reality.

However they do owe me 40 hours of pay for 40 hours of work paid according to CONTRACT THAT WAS SIGNED BY THE CORPORATION!!!!

Just because it's legal, doesn't make it right. If it did, lawyers would be loved as opposed to hated.

One-Thousand - whatever and whenever you get a chance you bash Michigan -- have a great one!!

That's a generalization...

[joey71]

Originally Posted by One Thousand

The world is filled with them. When you do something besides insert screws for a living, you find that generalizations are a requirement. They're practical and necessary. Welcome to the real world.




Jesus forgives. Why can't someone as lowly as myself forgive myself for my immoral upbringing. Because I was lost, must I never be found?




They do. Just like the price of the product of your labor must be occassionally cut to continue competing in the market, so too must the price you demand for you labor be cut to stay competitive.

Again, welcome to reality.




Just because it's legal, doesn't make it right. If it did, lawyers would be loved as opposed to hated.




That's a generalization...

Dont need YOUR type of reality -- oh speaking of, you dont live in Michigan but you still BASH IT!!

HAVE A GREAT LIFE!!!

[One Thousand]

Originally Posted by joey71

Dont need YOUR type of reality -- oh speaking of, you dont live in Michigan but you still BASH IT!!

HAVE A GREAT LIFE!!!

Yeah... right now I don't live there. However, I'm pretty frustrated that the real estate I'll be inheriting is losing value daily because MI doesn't have jobs. Come the end of Granholme's term, hopefully the electorate will be ready to start beating up the unions and loosening up the economy for investment...

[Yac]

Everybody calm down and talk about the topic, not each other.
Please.
Yac.

[MIhome]

Originally Posted by Yac

Everybody calm down and talk about the topic, not each other.
Please.
Yac.

isn't this the way it work's?dem's talked about republican's and vice-versa?isn't that how it work's....or may be does not and we found the problem.

[mofromcheboygankalamazoo]

ok, to be totally honest i have only read bits and pieces of this thread-unions are part of MOST northern states-i live in Philladelphia-there are unions for EVERY trade! Unions are an important way of life here
I am a teacher-I choose to work for public schools so I can be part of hte union-I thuroughly agree with unions-people seem to be making harsh generalizations here!!!!! that is all-speaking from an education association member-i like unions-i worked for the state once too and had to be part of uaw and i liked it
ok continue on with your generalizations!!

[Paddington]

There's other places with unions, no doubt. California and New York are heavily unionized (as well as heavily taxed), but the fact is people are willing to put up with those hassles to live in those unique places, whereas they will not put up with them when a state like Michigan or Ohio (which - lets face the facts - are much more interchangeable with rest of flyover country) are involved. Pennsylvania is another heavily unionized state, with probably more in common Michigan demographically and economically than New York or California. But again Michigan's problem is that the homegrown UAW union is so god damned militant and self-destructive it scares away potential employers.

Speaking of the UAW, I have an interesting story. I went to Cornell, which was so left wing and pro-union they even had a school of Industrial and Labor Relations which churned out scores of professional trade unionists, labor lawyers, and other assorted rabble rousers each year. What's funny is that the UAW a few years ago tried to organize the graduate student body at Cornell, but were rejected by a huge margin. Even in this wildly enthusiastic, pro-union environment, they flat out scared people with their nutty rhetoric and well deserved reputation for fostering bitter relations. Now take that and apply it to a whole state. Sure, the UAW only employees a fraction of Michigan's work force, but the entire state is seen through the prism of UAW militancy. That's a huge challenge which has become 10 times worse in 2008, with new stories of UAW strikes hitting the national press every week.

[larkim]

I am a retired UAW member (GM) and in the 30 years I spent in the union I was only out on strike 4 days, and that was mid eighties so the UAW isn't always out on strike. A Union isn't just helping its own members, they fight for safety and work conditions for all. The UAW and Teamsters and all the other unions have helped raise the wages of hundreds of thousand non union employees. We hear how a job a the big three is so easy, well I have seen hundreds of 18-25 year olds get hired at GM and quit because the work is to hard. The Unions are aware of the state our country is in and have given tremendous concessions to help. For those against unions and say they are for America go take a walk through your home and look at where things are made. Are you supporting America or Investing in China. I suggest reading the book (The Grapes of Wrath) it was about the great depression. Read it and know what can happen.

[Wiggles603]

This is going to sound pretty bad, but this is a capitalist country. It's the company's responsibility to produce something we actually want, at a competitive price.

A good example would be if you looked at guitars. You can get a made in mexico fender standard stratocaster, for $400, while a fender american standard strat would cost you $1000. They're the same guitar but one costs significantly more. You can't put blame on the consumer for buying the cheaper one.