[Hans64]

This post will probably get me killed but: I grew up in Michigan (Oakland County) and attended college there but left immediately thereafter. I didn't even consider staying because the state is in no way progressive and seems to be on a continuous (negative) loop. It is really a rather backwards place and I don't see it changing. I was in the Detroit area last year and the story was EXACTLY the same as when I lived there in the 70s and 80s! The (white) suburbs hate the (black) city and vice versa. West Michigan is no better--it is hardcore religious conservative and anyone outside this strata is going to be a fish out of water and viewed with suspicion. Even the residents seemed unhealthy--really fat everywhere. I ate at a Bob Evans in Western Michigan because there were no other choices in the area but equally mediocre chains. The entire place was filled with fat families eating the food in near silence. It was depressing. I only visit family in MI a few times a year but it really draws the life out of me. After a few days I feel listless and gloomy. The entire state needs to completely reinvent itself. FORGET the car industry--it will be gone in 10 years. Tourism is a possibility. I don't know what else. I have good memories of being a kid in MI but I couldn't live there now.

[Bydand]

Wow, don't know what part of West Michigan you were in, but it sure wasn't my area. We have all types of eating establishments, and the beaches sure are a long ways from being nothing but fat families. Sounds like you see what you expect to tell the truth. As for the area being religious, yes there are a few churches, but no more than any other state I have lived in, and less than when I lived in Texas. Again, just depends on what you are expecting to see and what you are looking for.

[RJ17015]

I'm not sure where in MI you're from -- we were in the suburbs of Detroit. I'd have to say the opposite -- we had many health conscience friends/neighbors. Nor did we experience heavy religion -- not that that is a bad thing.

Moving south -- we've found out what it's like to live in the bible belt -- we're trying to fit in, but Church to us isn't what it is to the people here. And as my daughter says "you don't have to be a size 2 to fit in here" so the kids here are a bit larger than those in MI.

Anyway -- I LOVE MI and always will - born and raised there, most of my adult life, it just makes me sad to see it in such a poor state, and it looks like it hasn't hit rock bottom. MI will always have a special place in me and my family's heart.

[stanman13]

Originally Posted by RJ17015

For every American driving a Foreign Car, they are NOT putting money back into the US pocket, but that money is going back into Japan... While they may open a plant or two here in the states -- the profits all go back to the originating country. The next largest purchase to a house is a car -- if the American Auto industry goes under -- we are dependent on other countries for that purchase, and they make all the profits -- it's going to hurt ALL of the US, not just MI.

The difficulty with this is that even our domestic three are selling us imports. Without naming names, there is a long list of "American" cars that are made in other countries. I'm not sure if we're better off buying an "American" car made elsewhere, that doesn't put any Americans to work, or to buy a "foreign" car made here that at least puts some people to work. I think to the average citizen, it is hard to tell what's made where.

The salaried employees of the Auto Industry have been hit again and again, to the point of a UAW employee having better benefits and making as much if not MORE than an Engineer with a Master's Degree -- WTH?

Just as you've met union workers who abused the system, I've known salaried workers who used to brag about all the "f**k-around time" (their words) they had with their jobs. To me that says that you don't have enough to do, therefore there are too many of you for the amount of work to be done.

Detroit has for a long time had to fight the press. This idea that foreign cars are made better just doesn't play out in repair shops. I've worked on all sorts of cars (as a hobby and in a former life) and can testify that American cars are made every bit as well as the competition, when you compare apples to apples.

I sincerely hope the big three can keep going. They are coming out with some interesting cars. I shudder to think what Michigan would be like if they disappear altogether.

[MittenDweller82]

Whether or not they dissapear is already decided, it is simply how much longer can they hold on. Most likely (talks are already on the table) GM will merge with Chrysler to increase capital (building cars is expensive when you have workers who will whine if not paid 30/hour, not to mention strike and cause more expense) Will this help the Michigan economy? Certainly not, it will cause further consolidation of both GM and Chrysler operations, which is badly needed if any of the big 3 wish to survive in this economic climate.

On to the future of Michigan: It is very unfortunate that our leaders did not take the same action as other Midwest states...Penn, NY, IL, WI to name a few completely re-shaped their economies during the manufacturing downturn. In its place they attracted health care, insurance, and high tech industry through the (and this is the most important piece to the puzzle) fact they could keep their college grads. Not to be completely rude, although the compliance with every UAW whim has crushed any hopes for Michigan to receive interest from any local or international manufacturing venture. There isn't much more that could happen to Michigan's economy to make it more unappealing to future business: College grads fleeing like mad, Union Mentality, Hostility, Expectation of high wages. And out of all of those, the union mentality is by far the most toxic, followed by the brain drain that has been occurring for nearly a decade.

Detroit needs to look at cities such as Pittsburgh, and Syracuse, places that were once devastated by manufacturing decline, now reshaped by proper planning, and a nearly complete absence of manufacturing and unions, adding health care, insurance, bio-tech and high tech firms. No, its certainly not easy to lure fortune 500 firms to your city, although the sooner Michigan pulls the massive festering splinter that is the auto industry, the sooner the wound can heal. Its simply madness, the equivalent being sitting on a nuclear warship, knowing all the explosives have been activated, yet it cannot be stopped. Granholm must constantly babysit and spoon feed UAW whatever it wishes, or face the possibility of strikes, crippling the chains of manufacturing suppliers down the line. Its not physics, one can easily look at other states without union stronghold and see the instant drop in unemployment.

As a life long resident of this state, with the exception of a few years, other states pale in comparison to our natural beauty, recreation and tourism. Yes, I'll admit, when I get back into town after a flight from LA or Portland to see family, I do have a wave of depression. Not because I hate where I live, but because Michigan has lost so much in a short amount of time. This storm that started here will only subside when Michigan decides its time to get serious about job creation outside of manufacturing.

[HRTplz]

Originally Posted by Lumbertown

Maybe Michigan should declare independence.

But seriously, we need to stop letting jobs go to the goddamn foreigners (Mexico). I know for a fact that it's not accomplishing what the companies want (quality product), so it's causing extra drain in money and resources - for example, having to redo parts (speaking from a factory/industry perspective, here - they mess up on working/reworking the parts so the customer sends them back and we're left holding the bill). To accomplish that, we need an action program, backed & allowable by law, that would enable us to say "no" to job loss. Bring back the jobs that got shipped out.

The problem is, govt. is no longer "of the people, by the people, for the people". It's controlled by greedy money-grubbers who think in dollar signs over quality of life for their future generations of descendants, who favor minorities and foreigners. Because of that, everything's going into the $hitcan. I'd say eliminate money but not sure that'd be enough. People have to change; they have to change what's in their hearts and what they care about. They have to start being responsible and having a serious outlook on the future. The system's broken. It isn't enough to sit on our asses whining about it. We have to get up and do something about it: Take action. I know that sounds like hype & rhetoric, not very detailed, but it's true. To save the future of Michigan, and the USA, and jobs, it has to start with the person being willing & able to identify the real source of the problem, then deal with it accordingly. Unfortunately, most people are just a bunch of lazy-asses who don't care that they're being eroded out of existence. Take this for example: Drive by a group of pickers in picking season, and notice that they're all Mexicans. What do you do? Shake your head and drive on. And that's why everything's going to hell. You have to be proactive & not let life happen TO you, but rather the other way around.

I'd also say protest, write letters, demand return of Michigan's jobs, which should work in theory, but won't in reality. You'll just be ignored (and soon possibly jailed for expressing free speech). Contrary to anyone's opinion, Granholm's in it for the money and the power, nothing else, and so is every other local congressman, representative, company exec, etc., etc.

Money is the be-all & end-all, as this week on Wall St. proved.

1. I think america is just facing a reality that the rest of the world has faced for a long time. Working hard doesn't guarantee anything. This notion of the American dream is a fantasy for the rest of the world and it is quickly disappearing here too.

2. Outsourcing is a symptom of global inequality. If other countries are poorer it's going to be cheaper to outsource there, and capitalism will dictate that that is what should happen. As I see it, people can either make other countries richer (slowy happening) or the government can exert control over the free market. Traditionally you conservatives have been all against messing with the free market, but anyways, that's where we are.

3. You can shake your heads at mexican pickers if you want, I heard a farmer on the east coast talking about immigration once - he employed locals for the nonpicking jobs at his farm and gave them good hourly pay. For picking jobs, pay is determined by how much you pick. No one but the seasonal mexican workers could pick enough to make it worth their while.

4. Your anti-immigrant sentiment is precisely why the US and michigan is tanking. 2 reasons

A. You NEED immigrants, to create new businesses which will create jobs, stuff BEYOND the auto industry

according to this

Immigration: impact on U.S. economy | National Voter | Find Articles at BNET

47% of venture backed companies are started by immigrants

I don't know why domestics don't start more companies, but maybe it's because starting new companies is risky, and immigrants typically have little to loose, and much to gain.


B. Lack of diversity encourages your brain drain. My parents are from Taiwan, I was born in Florida, raised in California, got my BA in electrical engineering and computer science at UC Berkeley and came to Michigan for my Phd in electrical engineering. I just moved to Chicago - why?

I thought michigan wasn't a good place to be an asian person. Beyond that, coming from California, Michigan lacked the diversity I was used to. I believe that racial diversity makes our cities more interesting, more interesting cultures, food, people, etc.. Last I heard, Michigan is suffering from severe brain drain, with much of it's young talent leaving for more exciting. If you look at where most young people move to find excitement, those places are typically alot more diverse than MI, and that's not a coincidence. I don't actually think that most of your children would say "oh I left MI for diversity". I do think that the variety of non-white food, festivals, and cultural events that they have available to them probably makes LA, Chicago, New york, etc.. more exciting than MI.

At the end of the day, I benefited from your institutions, and your infrastructure. I did pay into your state with some tuition, and taxes, but I got alot more out of it, and unfortunately I have to take it with me. If I ever do start a company that creates jobs, I will not start it in MI because I know that myself, and the other creative and innovative people I want to employ would not want to live in MI either. You may not give a **** about me, but I'm sure that my path mirrors alot of the young talent that was raised there.

[stanman13]

Originally Posted by hugoshi

You NEED immigrants, to create new businesses which will create jobs, stuff BEYOND the auto industry

47% of venture backed companies are started by immigrants

I don't know why domestics don't start more companies, but maybe it's because starting new companies is risky, and immigrants typically have little to loose, and much to gain.

Maybe more immigrants start companies because they get significantly better tax deals to do so. Then after the tax breaks are over, they have their brother (or whoever) immigrate and sell the business to them, thereby extending the tax breaks. I don't think we should eliminate the breaks for immigrant startups, but I do think we should extend the same opportunities to domestic startups.

[HRTplz]

what tax breaks are you talking about? I honestly don't know.

[merit1sje]

I have thought for many years that the UAW has been hurting more than helping. Workers themselves have been a big part of this false security of comfort. I'm sorry, but I think you've worked yourselves out of a job! What was started as a means to bring about better woking conditions has turned into a means to get more things at the expense of the consumer! It has become that way with everything! My mother once said:" Greed is a chronic illness that afflicts us all" and I believe that to be true. It has led us to where we are today.
It is my belief that we have to get the representatives into Congress and the Senate who truely represent the needs of the people. Those who are not bound to speacial interests or influence. Those who care about the nation and not just their state. Because we're all in this together. It's not about me and it's not about you. It's about us...............

[ersatz_sobriquet]

I think so many of you are wrong about Michigan.
Michigan is full of innovative rugged individualists. And I love that. Michigan will survive for those who see opportunity. Others will fail and leave--because obstacles are things a person sees when they take their eyes off their goal. That's fine by me. More Michigan for the rest of us that stay.

Michigan is absolutely beautiful. There are 10,000 lakes, and I just bought a forclosure cottage on one of them--absolutely fantastic price with all the expensive renovations already completed such as new windows, doors, roof, siding, and drywall, new bathroom, etc. And it's right outside of Ann Arbor, and in such a clean beautiful place with lake water that has never been infested with chemicals and junk.
Who says Michigan is a bad place? Only those who don't change with the changing tide. I saw opportunity and bought this cottage. I see opportunity in estate sales in Michigan--and I resell antiques. I saw opportunity and grasped it--and now when others are leaving I have purchased a second home in this beautiful place.
I may live somewhere else also at some point in my life--but I'll always keep my cottage and Michigan will always be home to me.
Michigan people can create their own jobs. Barter services with your neighbor. Live more off the land so to speak--because Michigan has it all. We don't need the stinkin' global economy. This place is a haven for nature lovers.
Become innovative and produce some product or service that your neighbors want or need. Learn to survive and thrive just as some did during the great depression. Change your views on what is important in life, and focus on good living right here in Michigan, and family, and friends, and you will be rich indeed. Laughter has no cost on the stock market, neither do good friends, nor good times, and such a beautiful place to surround yourself with, and there is no price-tag on Michigan.
Live smart. Get rid of credit cards and mortgages, and live in a place that you can afford and that you own. Try to (difficult now) sell your home that carries a mortgage and buy a forclosure cash like I did. Change your priorities and change your life. You and I can do little individually to change Washington--but we sure can make our homes and our state a paradise. Take pride in ownership and get to know your neighbors. I love the post from the person who said Michigan should cede from the union. Live as if it already has.
I really think Michigan has unlimited potential if the people in it learn to trade and barter between eachother, and provide services in exchange. I'm thinking more and more about this rugged individualist lifestyle. Buy an old boat and fix it up. Drill your own well--as I may soon be doing, because my cottage well is clogged possibly beyond repair. Learn how to be self-sufficient! Grow your own vegetables. Learn to descale a fish, clean your own duck. Take advantage of what is around you and free for the taking without stepping on anybody else's toes. It really can be done. Learn a new skill in fixing something that needs attention in your home instead of contracting everything out but changing light bulbs. Do it yourself!
The rest of the nation is new to the recession. Michigan people have been weathering a recession for years and years...and we're way ahead in the game of how to survive and live well.
I'm really proud of the people of this state.