[UKUKUK]

Originally Posted by scolls

They did make concessions. Retirees don't have dental or vision coverage. Starting wages for a big 3 employee are less than the foreign companies. Employees at the Gerogetown Kentucky Toyota plant actually make more than a big 3 employee. The UAW has taken over retiree health care (For Ford right now)

The oldest foreign plant in the US opened in the 80's. The big 3 has been around for a hundred years. The foreign companies simply have no employees at retirement yet. Not to mention the fact the big 3 employees have paid into their retirement and it is fully vested by the company. Not the employees fault GM squandered 25% of it's employee retirement fund. Not the employees fault GM's US market share dropped from 50% to 25%. Poor management led to GM and the other company's demise, not the employees.

You can continue now.

I live near the Georgetown plant. The workers are not happy, nor do they get paid that much.

...and right now, they're not working at all.

[RememberMee]

Originally Posted by mccragre

RememberMee, are you suggesting then that I just drop out of school and go flip burgers??

First, not going to school does not necessarily send you burger flipping. And vice-versa, going to school doesn't make you burger proof. I want you to understand that many college educated types compete with chronically poor for the Wal-Mart type and burger flipping jobs once aged &/or discarded. It's getting worse every year. And a Ph.D. doesn't really help to land that kind of a job.

Schooling shapes&molds you for a wage slaving career. In essence that's all what public& university schooling is about - manufacturing disposable& loyal, narrowly specialized nuts&bolts for the corporate machine. Interesting read on the subject: Amazon.com: The Underground History of American Education: A Schoolteacher's Intimate Investigation Into the Problem of Modern Schooling, by John Taylor Gatto: Everything Else

You are looking for the things a rare job out there offers. Most of the jobs (college educated or not) are nothing like that. Therefore, lions share of jobs "satisfaction" is derived from good paychecks & climbing up the ladder to compensate for all the depravities endured on the lower levels. Most satisfaction in life (and work place) is derived from feeling superior to other people. You've got tonnes of positive attitude, that's a MUST for a successful climber. Now, you have to learn "people skills" (especially kissing arse, showing off, taking credits, making yourself look indispensable (on the expense of less "people" savvy coworkers)). Your education, smarts, competence and hard work are tertiary. Of course, there are certain stereotypes&discrimination to deal with, but it's another subject.

I want you understand that you are "educating" & adjusting yourself to sell your arse to the corporate/government "entities" that don't give rat's arse about you, wouldn't think twice about kicking your narrowly specialized butt on a street to fight for a burger job. One should (self) educate oneself for oneself, to become as free as possible from all of that.

Besides, life isn't about your job. I think that's where this country goes wrong time and time again. People think to lead a successful life you need two new cars parked outside of your $300,000 house. I can find happiness with a lot less than that.

Life is all about survival anxiety mixed in with searches for meaning. It's just unfortunate that most people who overcome survival anxiety do find satisfaction, pleasure and meaning by comparing themselves to other (less money&Power wielding) people. It's just human nature. However, many (if not most) people never overcome survival anxiety. For them life is ALL about their, one pay check away from living on streets jobs. How else minority could rule&exploit majority without deeply entrenched survival anxiety? Who in his right mind would breath industrial crap for $8/hr otherwise?

Average parents start preparing their child for a successful wage slaving career starting from what age? 2 years old, sometimes less, there is no childhood left to speak of. Then life is turning around obsession with good school districts, good grades, advanced placement, athletics&the rest of BS they like to read on college applications, SAT scores, college etc., then perpetual job hunting, making yourself sellable, stuffing your head with all kinds of things you could not care less about, watching yourself otherwise not to endanger employment chances, working&commuting 10+ hours/day (i.e. spending MOST of you awake hours Working). And after all of that some individuals may just write "life isn't about your job". Yeah, right.

Yeah, I might be "young and CLUELESS" as you had posted earlier (since edited),

It was an inappropriate way to make my arguments sound more solid than they are, sorry.

but at least I am optimistic and content with simplicity. I think that's the biggest failure of some members of the older generations (not true for all), is that they have stopped being optimistic about life. I think you definitely reflect that in your posts.

To demand optimism in this world we created for ourselves in an insult for everything that makes us human. That's why corporate world is an absolute champion for the "positive" thinking and upbeat optimism, it maintains status quo better than KGB, regardless how absurd, unjust or suicidal that status is.

American public education, American universities, American society as a whole managed to tame&channel inherent rebelliousness, nonconformism, idealism&maximalism of youth. American Universities are quite sad places to behold, "getting a job" (i.e. survival anxiety) overwhelms any other cause under the Sun. Feels like a cemetery for the spirit of mankind.

[RememberMee]

Originally Posted by UKUKUK

Yeah, good luck Ilovetenn.

I think you'll find Tennessee isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Tennessee is being invaded by "new life" seeking refugees and mountain view seeking retirees, it's going down the way Florida and Arizona went.

[tfantasy]

My problem with Michigan? The job market. The company I worked for down-sized last Fall and I have not been able to find a job since then. There is NOTHING available and not one employer has contacted me out of the mega amounts of jobs that I have applied for..soooo frustrating!! I know that I am not alone and I am at a point where I feel that I may have to leave the state and move to where there is work. I just don't feel that Michigan is going to recover from the huge unemployment problem; if we ever do, it will probably take years!! Who has years, when you need to work in order to live??!! The one thing that I am trying to hang onto right now is getting my son graduated from high school (May 2011) before I make any major decisions. Anybody else in the same boat as me?

[nye2001]

No, the pay may not be better, but if you have no choice but to live in a giant turd of an abortion, why not do it somewhere nicer. I am sure the $400 a month in heating costs during the winter can go a long way. I have done some research it is actually cheaper to live down south anyway, states like Florida , Tennesee, and Texasdont impose an income tax.( 4.6% increase there) Housing is cheaper, gas is cheaper, cigarettes and beer is cheaper, insurance is cheaper. I actually saw apartments in Clearwater Beach that were cheaper than Westland. Hmm, 2 miles from the beach or 2 miles from 2 miles from what, Hines park? That choice is getting really tough, lol.

Originally Posted by canudigit

You know, I can really understand when people come here and post about how the only jobs out there pay extremely low hourly wages that one can't live on in terms of having a house payment, a car payment, groceries, gas, etc. That's true in many cases and very, very frustrating. But what gets me is when people post here about low pay in Michigan forcing them to move to other states, but the states they are talking about moving to don't pay any better! Who here really thinks that right to work states like Florida, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Arizona, et al. would pay better? And who says that even low paying jobs are any easier to find there? PLEASE people, before you start going on about how your golden ticket is somewhere in the sun belt, at LEAST read the forums for those states, ask questions, do some reading. Things are not any better there! I'll use an example that I know from personal experience--move to Phoenix (along with every other disgruntled Midwesterner who is fed up with shoveling snow) and let us know how that job search goes. Or, to save you time, just go to the Phoenix forum on this site and ask the locals about the economy there.

I know it's tough here, but folks, it's tough all over. This is not a one state recession/depression!

[ram2]

Texas does impose an income tax in the years when the state cannot balance it's budget.

[ForStarters]

Originally Posted by nye2001

No, the pay may not be better, but if you have no choice but to live in a giant turd of an abortion, why not do it somewhere nicer. I am sure the $400 a month in heating costs during the winter can go a long way. I have done some research it is actually cheaper to live down south anyway, states like Florida , Tennesee, and Texasdont impose an income tax.( 4.6% increase there) Housing is cheaper, gas is cheaper, cigarettes and beer is cheaper, insurance is cheaper. I actually saw apartments in Clearwater Beach that were cheaper than Westland. Hmm, 2 miles from the beach or 2 miles from 2 miles from what, Hines park? That choice is getting really tough, lol.

Yeah, that may be true, but then I'd have to live in Texas.

[dragon_fly_12]

Whether it be the Midwest, the Sunbelt, the Southwest, or anywhere else...

The gov't is gonna get their money. Plan and simple.

NC has lower real estate taxes, but also has a personal property tax. NC has low heating expenses, but high grocery prices and cooling expenses.

In the end --- it is all a wash. You might get slightly further ahead in one state over another, but you will also see this in the lack of public services or lifestyle somewhere down the line.

The best thing that anyone can do when out of a job with little job prospects in the immediate area --- go to where the job prospects are and make the best of the move. There is no "magical promised land" anywhere in the US because ALL areas have their own drawbacks. It is about which region will allow you to survive.

[Peter B]

I love Northern Michigan!!! Just getting tired of seeing the 70%+ of the population up here being overweight, out of shape, with no desire to improve themselves. They drink soda pop for breakfast, lunch, dinner & have no inclination to improve themselves whatsover. It keeps some of us busy for work but it is just sad that so many people are too stupid to make themselves healthier & live a healthy lifestyle.

[AlohaHuey]

Florida kills you with property tax, insurance rates for hurricanes, and an overabundance of really freaky people. Seven times out of ten, some really grisly or violent crime occurs, it's in Florida.

Texas has one problem: Texans. And it's as scenic as a parking lot, just about everywhere.

Phoenix, Arizona...well, most of people's common sense has boiled away in that summer hellhole. Lots of angry transplants. Tuscon and n orth AZ is pretty nice, but you get snow in N AZ in winter.