What do the purpose of parts of Military Branches that overlap with the other branches (Army, Air Force)

[MichaelOrear]

Hello,


I know from research that the major military branches have some divisions or abilities that overlap with the other branches:


Example:


1. The Navy has the marines which overlaps with the army, plus they have their own Army/Marine like units trained in ground combat I.e Navy Seals, Seabees, and of course they have their own air power which overlaps with the air force.


2. The Air Force has some ground troops (Tactical team) known as the "green air force.'


3. The Army of course overlaps with the Marines, and has air power (which overlaps with the air force), and even has a few boats (Navy).


4. The Marines does ground troops (Army),has sea power (Navy) and air power (Air Force).


So, what is the purpose of the army like units of the Navy (Seals), the Air Force type Army fighting planes, what is the purpose of the Marines which can do tasks that the Air Force, Army, and Navy Does? In other words, what is the purpose of having certain parts of different branches of the military be able to do work that is similar to what the other branches do?


Thanks

[Taiko]

Basically a local commander could not depend upon another chain of command to commit their troops to a mission. So they created a full time capability instead of relying on ad-hoc units like say give the sailors a rifle

[NJ Brazen_3133]

There is also something called SWCC (special warfare craft crewman). Apparently they drive the small boats for the SEALs.

I find that pointless. What is point of having SEALs if they cant handle even small boats? That has to be a core competency. Otherwise have SWCC with no SEALs, and just drop off/pickup Army or Marine operators.

Plus there is now Riverines coming back in the Navy.

But the reason for overlap is to bridge the gap between branches. Riverines give Navy a connection to the ground forces. Army aviation gives them connection to the Air Force. If they need to joint missions they have a way to relate.

[SVTLightning]

Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133

There is also something called SWCC (special warfare craft crewman). Apparently they drive the small boats for the SEALs.

I find that pointless. What is point of having SEALs if they cant handle even small boats? That has to be a core competency. Otherwise have SWCC with no SEALs, and just drop off/pickup Army or Marine operators.

Plus there is now Riverines coming back in the Navy.

But the reason for overlap is to bridge the gap between branches. Riverines give Navy a connection to the ground forces. Army aviation gives them connection to the Air Force. If they need to joint missions they have a way to relate.

So how do they get the boat back home after being dropped off? who takes care of that? who meets them at their designated extraction point with the boat?? smh

[k350]

Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133

There is also something called SWCC (special warfare craft crewman). Apparently they drive the small boats for the SEALs.

I find that pointless. What is point of having SEALs if they cant handle even small boats? That has to be a core competency. Otherwise have SWCC with no SEALs, and just drop off/pickup Army or Marine operators.

Plus there is now Riverines coming back in the Navy.

But the reason for overlap is to bridge the gap between branches. Riverines give Navy a connection to the ground forces. Army aviation gives them connection to the Air Force. If they need to joint missions they have a way to relate.

Because the boats drop off and pick up the SEALs, and have a set of their own skill set, something that deviates a lot from SEALs, and there is no reason to have SEALs operate the boat because that is a whole lot of resources being used that could be used elsewhere. It is like saying why cannot the fighter pilot also work on his plane.

Riverines have been back for a while. They were talking about it forever, but to fill a skills gap that was needed; SEALs are too small in number and over skilled for the mission, run of the mill sailor large in numbers, but under skilled. It kind of got brought forward from the IA (individual augmentation) philosophy that they started with Afghanistan, if I recall correctly.

[NJ Brazen_3133]

Originally Posted by SVTLightning

So how do they get the boat back home after being dropped off? who takes care of that? who meets them at their designated extraction point with the boat?? smh

Why not just leave behind some SEALs to guard the boats where they are? That way their extraction is right there. Or just have other SEALs drive away and act as backup/rescue when called for? If there are not enough SEALs just make the SWCCs into SEALs.

And I am not talking about overall insertion/extraction. I am talking about small boat handling. I get that SEALs should not also be driving bigger ships by themselves such as those Cyclone Class Patrol. The SEALs usually have to be brought close enough for the small boats to then be deployed.

Originally Posted by k350

Because the boats drop off and pick up the SEALs, and have a set of their own skill set, something that deviates a lot from SEALs, and there is no reason to have SEALs operate the boat because that is a whole lot of resources being used that could be used elsewhere. It is like saying why cannot the fighter pilot also work on his plane.

Riverines have been back for a while. They were talking about it forever, but to fill a skills gap that was needed; SEALs are too small in number and over skilled for the mission, run of the mill sailor large in numbers, but under skilled. It kind of got brought forward from the IA (individual augmentation) philosophy that they started with Afghanistan, if I recall correctly.

We are talking about small water craft here, not larger ones like the Cyclone Class patrol vessels. SEALs are suppose to be water borne. If they cant even handle a small dinghy . . . .; really, its suppose to be a core competency of a sailor.

I get Riverines existing, but then why not have Riverines do the delivery if necessary? Why have a separate unit for that small a task? Its not like they drive those small boats from across oceans. They are on a ship or dropped from a plane closer to objective before being deployed.

If handling small boats deviates from SEALs, then SEALs deviates a lot from the Navy.

[WK91]

Originally Posted by MichaelOrear

Hello,


I know from research that the major military branches have some divisions or abilities that overlap with the other branches:


Example:


1. The Navy has the marines which overlaps with the army, plus they have their own Army/Marine like units trained in ground combat I.e Navy Seals, Seabees, and of course they have their own air power which overlaps with the air force.


2. The Air Force has some ground troops (Tactical team) known as the "green air force.'


3. The Army of course overlaps with the Marines, and has air power (which overlaps with the air force), and even has a few boats (Navy).


4. The Marines does ground troops (Army),has sea power (Navy) and air power (Air Force).


So, what is the purpose of the army like units of the Navy (Seals), the Air Force type Army fighting planes, what is the purpose of the Marines which can do tasks that the Air Force, Army, and Navy Does? In other words, what is the purpose of having certain parts of different branches of the military be able to do work that is similar to what the other branches do?


Thanks

I’m not exactly sure what you are talking about when you say green Air Force? Perhaps you are talking about TACPs? They are imbedded with the Army and they call in air strikes as sort of a liaison between the Ground component and Air component. They are absolutely necessary in their critical role and if they were Army, I don’t think it would work as well as it does.

Other tactical airmen are PJs and Combat Controllers. PJs, or pararescue, go into hostile areas and rescue personnel, such as a downed pilot. Combat Controllers help seize airfields and then start the process of getting them operational since they are also certified air traffic controllers, so we can start landing our own planes there.

Another group that comes to mind are the Ravens. They are highly trained Security forces who fly with the planes and operate ground security at airfields that have a significant threat.

I consider all of these roles as specific to the Air Force

I see all of those missions as particular to the Air Force and it wouldn’t make sense for them to be from another service. They definitely have overlapping skills with personnel from other services, and they often go through training together, but the mission is still unique to the Air Force.

[ddeemo]

Originally Posted by MichaelOrear

Hello,

I know from research that the major military branches have some divisions or abilities that overlap with the other branches:

Example:

1. The Navy has the marines which overlaps with the army, plus they have their own Army/Marine like units trained in ground combat I.e Navy Seals, Seabees, and of course they have their own air power which overlaps with the air force.

2. The Air Force has some ground troops (Tactical team) known as the "green air force.'

3. The Army of course overlaps with the Marines, and has air power (which overlaps with the air force), and even has a few boats (Navy).

4. The Marines does ground troops (Army),has sea power (Navy) and air power (Air Force).

So, what is the purpose of the army like units of the Navy (Seals), the Air Force type Army fighting planes, what is the purpose of the Marines which can do tasks that the Air Force, Army, and Navy Does? In other words, what is the purpose of having certain parts of different branches of the military be able to do work that is similar to what the other branches do?

Thanks

The Army, Navy and Marines were formed within a few months of each other - in 1775 so they all predate the declaration of independence and were formed as separate services. The Air Force was formed after WW2 out of the Army Air Corps. The Marines are a separate service but under the admin of the Navy since 1834 - so prospective Marines go to the Naval Academy and Navy ROTC and the Navy provides services such as Medical (Marine medics are actually Navy Corpsman).

They each have capabilities associated with their primary mission - Navy is Sea, Army is Land, Air Force is Air space and Marines is land projection from the Sea.

Without going into great detail - they all have aircraft and equipment specialized for their needs - the Navy Aircraft need to be operated from an Aircraft Carrier that has very different requirements than operating from land - they also have aircraft that specialize in things like finding Submarines. Marine Aircraft specialize in transport and ground support off a Carrier and vehicles designed for a shore landing. Army Aircraft support troops close in - mostly helos such as Apache and their vehicles are designed to be on land. The Air force aircraft are mainly air superiority over ground troops and long range bombing or supply support from air bases.

The Navy Seals are very different than Army or Marines and very different role - the term SEAL comes from SEa, Air, Land - very small, very specialized force - there are about 2000 active seals total at any time - 1000 start training but less than 250 make it through every year - I worked with the SEALS for a few years as well as Army Rangers - they are very different in role and tactics.

The Marines are far smaller than the other services but they do have some unique duties such as guarding all the US Embassies and they fly the President via Helo under Marine one designation. Their primary function is power ashore from ships and so have aircraft and ground vehicles (amphibious) suited for that role.

[ddeemo]

Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133

Why not just leave behind some SEALs to guard the boats where they are? That way their extraction is right there. Or just have other SEALs drive away and act as backup/rescue when called for? If there are not enough SEALs just make the SWCCs into SEALs.

And I am not talking about overall insertion/extraction. I am talking about small boat handling. I get that SEALs should not also be driving bigger ships by themselves such as those Cyclone Class Patrol. The SEALs usually have to be brought close enough for the small boats to then be deployed.

We are talking about small water craft here, not larger ones like the Cyclone Class patrol vessels. SEALs are suppose to be water borne. If they cant even handle a small dinghy . . . .; really, its suppose to be a core competency of a sailor.

I get Riverines existing, but then why not have Riverines do the delivery if necessary? Why have a separate unit for that small a task? Its not like they drive those small boats from across oceans. They are on a ship or dropped from a plane closer to objective before being deployed.

If handling small boats deviates from SEALs, then SEALs deviates a lot from the Navy.

You can't just make a SWCC into a SEAL any more than you can make a infantryman into a Green Beret - takes much more training that is not needed for the role. Many SEALS come from the SWCC community, they work in the same environment. Yes a SEAL could operate a boat because many were SWCC prior but you don't want to short a SEAL team by leaving one behind - it is silly - they each have their rolls and work together. Most SEAL insertions do not just involve dropping someone off and the boat waiting there - that would compromise the op. There are so few SEALS that you can't spare them for things like this.

[Submariner]

Seal teams also deploy from within submarines parked in rivers or harbors.