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I was reading a web site about the Vietnam Memorial Wall and came upon a section called---casualties by pay grade.
A puzzling part was why the highest number of casualties in the Marines occured in pay grade E-2 while in the Army it was E-3 ( very few casualties in E-2)
Why was this?
Was promotion to E-3 that much slower in the Marines?
If not, were Marines sent over sooner after bootcamp than the Army ?
The Army has over 10 times the number of Marines. I don't recall the exact numbers....
Enlisted promotions in the Army have generally been faster than in the other services. Yes there are exceptions...
During the Vietnam era some soldiers were promoted to E-5 with 18 months Time In Service (TIS). We had an E-7 in the unit in 1970 with two Vietnam tours and about 5 or 6 years TIS.
I was reading a web site about the Vietnam Memorial Wall and came upon a section called---casualties by pay grade.
A puzzling part was why the highest number of casualties in the Marines occured in pay grade E-2 while in the Army it was E-3 ( very few casualties in E-2)
Why was this?
Was promotion to E-3 that much slower in the Marines?
The Corps has always operated with an austere budget, which has resulted in reductions in forces and equipment, and fewer training excercises. This has been accompanied by slow promotion, at least in the enlisted ranks.
Troop strength went from 487,000 in 1945 to 170,000 in 1960. The Fleet Marine Force "capability for sustained combat has been seriously diminished," according to the Commandant Reports of that era.
We often "borrowed" equipment from the Army and painted it green before adding our division emblem. I recall a planned seven day exercise in which we landed on a beach and then were told to return to the base, since there was insufficient fuel for our vehicles. On another operation, we filled 55 gallon drums with water instead of aviation fuel.
We had E-5 platoon leaders, and veterans would often be discharged as E-3's, after having served honorably for three or four years. The tables of operation were a joke, as every unit was seriously undermanned.
While this situation improved dramatically during the Kennedy administration, and USMC troop strength reached 300,000 in 1968, I'm still not sure that promotions come as rapidly as in other branches of the Armed Forces.
Last edited by JustPassinThru; 10-06-2009 at 02:50 PM..
as far as i am aware, the usmc still hands out promotions a lot slower than the other branches. it depends on the MOS, but i would bet that the average 4-year enlistment ends as an e-4. there have been a few urban legends in the corps (at least, they are legends within the infantry, where promos are even slower) about a marine attaining e-6 within his or her first 4 years, but it is pretty darn rare.
as far as i am aware, the usmc still hands out promotions a lot slower than the other branches. it depends on the MOS, but i would bet that the average 4-year enlistment ends as an e-4. there have been a few urban legends in the corps (at least, they are legends within the infantry, where promos are even slower) about a marine attaining e-6 within his or her first 4 years, but it is pretty darn rare.
Actually the Marine Corps is second only to the Army as far as promotion rates up to ssgt. I've been selected to Staff at 8yrs myself. There are certain MOSs that are slow promoting or even closed. there are others where I've seen people reach E4 in about 18months TIS. The average is about 2-3 for Corporal, 4-5 for E-5. About 8-10 for SSgt. The promtions slow up after ssgt. Alot of that has to do with the high retention in the Marine Corps. Just not enough senior spts to go around. Promotion rates have picked up due to the increase in Corps end strength, though. They are actually a little faster than on the following chart.
The air force actually promotes the slowest, overall. I know a guy in the Navy and he caught up to his father in rank who was in the AF. Though his father did get promoted again before retiring.
Actually the Marine Corps is second only to the Army as far as promotion rates up to ssgt. I've been selected to Staff at 8yrs myself. There are certain MOSs that are slow promoting or even closed. there are others where I've seen people reach E4 in about 18months TIS. The average is about 2-3 for Corporal, 4-5 for E-5. About 8-10 for SSgt. The promtions slow up after ssgt. Alot of that has to do with the high retention in the Marine Corps. Just not enough senior spts to go around. Promotion rates have picked up due to the increase in Corps end strength, though. They are actually a little faster than on the following chart.
The air force actually promotes the slowest, overall. I know a guy in the Navy and he caught up to his father in rank who was in the AF. Though his father did get promoted again before retiring.
huh. like i said in the beginning of my post, it was as far as i was aware. in my anecdotal experience, every other branch promotes faster. i was surrounded by friends in virginia and north carolina that were picking up e5 in the coast guard and navy after less than two years, and a few of them ranking e6 in well under four years.
air force, i'm not that familiar with. but the stories were similar in the army, taking into consideration only my experience with it.
either way, i know for a fact that usmc infantry progression is agonizingly slow.
huh. like i said in the beginning of my post, it was as far as i was aware. in my anecdotal experience, every other branch promotes faster. i was surrounded by friends in virginia and north carolina that were picking up e5 in the coast guard and navy after less than two years, and a few of them ranking e6 in well under four years.
air force, i'm not that familiar with. but the stories were similar in the army, taking into consideration only my experience with it.
either way, i know for a fact that usmc infantry progression is agonizingly slow.
What surprised me was that I could understand the Air Force having slow promotion because there was a waiting list to enter the Air Force during Vietnam.
But the Marines had to utilize the draft to meet their quota.
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