Does being in the center of Mpls hurt the U of M? (Minneapolis: how much, house)

[MN55]

I kind of raised this question in the Midwestern College Town thread in City vs City. Basically, I think Minnesota would be better served if its flagship university was not located in the center of its largest metro. With the large majority of the state's top students coming from the cities, I think MN would be able to retain much more if it's top students if it had the U of M in a college town like Madison or Bloomington, IN removed from the main metro. Many students just want to get away during college and with all metro students pretty much living within a half hour from the U, that isn't exactly getting away. This drives many top students (including me, I might add) to the University of Wisconsin and other schools out-of-state.

The U of M just doesn't have the college town feel, school spirit, and sense of pride that comes from other schools like Wisconsin, Indiana, and michigan. It just feels to commuterish and oriented more towards research proffesionals than undergrads. The other schools also have large research facilities, but being in a college town gives it a better feel that's attractive to top undergrads. Dinkytown is too small and doesn't seem to cut it. Plus pride for Gopher athletics is severely lacking, much of which is due to them being constantly overshadowed by the Twins, Vikings, and Wild.

Not that there is any chance in hell of this actually changing, but the U would be better served if it was located somewhere like Duluth. A Big Ten campus built on the hills overlooking Lake Superior would be something indeed. Plus the gameday atmosphere on football Saturdays would have to be much better than the sorry state of things at the U of M now. This would also allow the smaller, second tier school to be located in the main metro of the Twin Cities, similar in fashion to UW-Milwaukee, UIC, and the University of Cincinnati.

[uptown_urbanist]

I disagree on many points, but think most of this basically comes down to personal opinion. The U has done quite well, and is one of the biggest public university campuses around; how much better does it have to be? And with its programs and offerings they're not exactly hurting in the top student recruitment realm, either (and many of those top students come from elsewhere; just as many Twin Cities students choose to go away for school, the U benefits from all the students from other towns and cities leaving their homes to come to the U. Many of my CLA honors classmates weren't from the metro area; some were, some weren't.). And while some students prefer to be more removed, others find the more central location to be extremely convenient. As far as sports, I don't have much interest in organized sports in general, but I'd say that in my family, anyway, there's probably more interest in the Gophers than in most of the pro teams. But then, admittedly sports offerings weren't even on my radar when considering what college to attend.

Those who prefer a Big 10 campus in a smaller city have plenty of excellent options available (and thanks to reciprocity it is a true choice), but many of us love the U the way it is. And for those who want a University of MN degree from Duluth, that's easily done. UMD already has a campus overlooking Lake Superior.

I love the U, love the neighborhood and campus, love the excitement that comes from its size and its location in the city, but understand why some people prefer a different setting. I don't think the U's Minneapolis location is hurting it or the state, though, and think that the location's negatives are balanced out by its positives.

[gearedtowardssalad]

I think that the school being in the city of Minneapolis is a huge reason why students choose to go there, and if it wasn't I think you would see drastically smaller enrollment numbers. When not studying like crazy, students want to have entertainment options available and not be in a small town that shuts down at 7pm. Look at the top 10 universities in the country by enrollment and you will find that 8/10 public universities are located in urban environments. And 9/10 of the top private universities are located in urban environments, as well.

[Radical_Car]

I love the location of the U and would much prefer being in the center of a big metro rather then a smaller city like Duluth, though I personally prefer a much larger city like Minneapolis, so like Uptown urbanist said, its a matter of opinion. Entertainment options and nightlife and such don't matter to many, many people, but they do to many, many people like me. And that is perfectly fine

[golfgal]

I would agree that because of it's location it doesn't draw as many of the top kids from the metro area as it could if it were in Brainerd or a Mankato-or anywhere a couple hours out of the metro area. Our rule for our kids is that they have to go "away" to school, away being a couple hours away, which rules out the U of M. I also think some of it comes down to size and getting lost. There are a lot of kids that prefer a smaller campus, but there are plenty that prefer a large one as well. What the location DOES do for the U is it attracts a pretty high number of non-traditional students, thus the reason for the U being so much bigger than most other universities. There are still plenty of kids from the metro that attend the U.

[uptown_urbanist]

For every top student in the metro that chooses not to attend the U there is a top student from another city or state that does select the U, so it evens out.

My parents would have initially preferred that I went elsewhere for school, but as an adult I chose my school, not my parents. And for me, the U was what I wanted: huge, offered the diversity of classes I wanted, and had a great deal of outside opportunities. I don't know about the U as a whole, but only about two-thirds of CLA's students come from MN; I don't know what percentage come from the Twin Cities, but my sense is that the more traditional students are just as likely to come from outside the metro area as within it (although of course there are many Twin Cities students there, too). I assume that is because many local students do prefer to go elsewhere. For me, though, there's a huge difference between living and going to school at the U and living life wherever else you lived in the Twin Cities, especially if you're coming straight out of high school (especially if you live on-campus for the first year or two). I am guessing that most students who do come from the Twin Cities are probably not making their decision based on entertainment options, although that's based mostly on the fact that I never heard any of my friends ever mention that as a reason for choosing one school over another. Most of us went on college visits and things, and saw that there's still lots going on at smaller campuses in small town environments, at least if you're a student living on campus. Maybe that's a bigger factor for those who come from small towns themselves and are more actively seeking a change of venue. I think many students are looking for something different, which is part of the reason many, although certainly not all, city kids decide to go to a smaller school in a small town for college.

[City eYes]

I thought that the U has an international appeal too. Do many foreign students prefer schools in big cities?

[Kid Cann]

I agree with MN55.

While, yes the University of Minnesota does do a great job at what it does, it's still a very 'urban' university. Being in an inner city and being so close to 2 very big downtowns, I can see it struggle to maintain identity and have a 'college atmosphere'.

It's something that is really unique. Something like a Marshall University in WV or University of Nebraska in Lincoln, NE... Even an University of Iowa in Iowa City... Or, how about Stillwater, OK... or Norman, OK... or Gainsville, FL... or E. Lansing, MI.... or.... IDK the handful of other true 'college towns'.

This is one of those other things that makes Minnesota and the Twin Cities unique - The biggest University just happens to be in the biggest city, which happens to make the biggest metro in the state. All adding to that MPLS nucleus.

I grew up 25 minutes from Dinkytown. I have friends that went there. I have spent many a weekends at Roy Wilkens' and stumbling up and down Frat Row. I have experienced the place. While Dinkytown does do a great job at having that campus life, I never really felt 'in a college town'. There were no small cafes with home made "Let's Get em' Gophs!" or anything... But there were crosswalks, high rises and speeding buses...

I think there really doesn't need to be a change, but it's good to wonder... I wonder what it would be like if the beloved Gophers were based out of Duluth. What if it were the University of Minnesota Golden Gophers flagshipped in Duluth and it would be the University of Minnesota-TC Bulldogs, overshadowed by the Gophers 3 hours north!

[K-Luv]

The U is not in the center of Minneapolis. The Twin Cities as a whole, yes, but it is on the edge of Minneapolis near the St. Paul border.

I've lived in college towns, the most notable being Lawrence, KS., and I disagree that a college 'specific' town does anything for that schools spirit outside of creating a bubble that the students live in. Now, that bubble may be desirable to some students, to others it is a hinderance. I know plenty of people who went to college in a small [college] town who were bored out of their minds going to the same bar, same bowling ally, same pizza joint, etc. for four years, with the only opportunities to do anything 'real' occurring when ever they went home.

One of the U's main selling points, and this is something that can be found on their website, is that the U is in a major metropolitan area. It gives students the option to live in that college bubble if they so desire, or to go to world-class museums, theaters, professional sporting events, 'real' shopping, etc.

Look at NYU, a school that doesn't even have a traditional campus and from the outside appears to be nothing more than office space at the least. Yet, it attracts more than enough students (and parents) who are willing to pay $50 grand a year to attend. Some students want to go there because of certain majors, but the main draw is that when students step off campus (uh, by leaving the front door), they step into NYC (when their foot hits the sidewalk). The ability to have immediate access to all that NYC has to offer is the draw and is what makes the price tag worth it.

Look at Boston. BU, Suffolk, Northeastern, Wentworth, Simmons and the rest of the Colleges of the Fenway, Emerson, MIT, and Harvard are all within the metro area (even though I think that BU, Suffolk, and Emerson are the only colleges that are 'technically' in Boston city limits. I need to check a map). BC is in a suburb, that may or may not be considered a part of Boston metro, and I am not sure if Tufts would be considered to be within the metro area but I do know that many Tufts students think that the 10 minute ride on the T into Boston puts them out in the sticks .

BU and Suffolk, like NYU, do not have the traditional college campus, but yet the draw is that these schools, all of them, are located in the Boston area.

Not to mention that UCB and UCLA are in the middle of major metro areas, too, and neither seems to be suffering from lack of school pride or team spirit.

I don't think that the U would draw as many students if it was out in the sticks in some small town. It would still no doubt be a large school, but I think that it would have 10K to perhaps 20K less students. Its accessibility to commuter students, and the ability to house commuter students in various parts of the metro, are large draws for locals or for those who do not wish to live on campus is one-if not the one-reason for its size.

I think there is plenty of Gopher pride as it is.

And by the way, the U IS a research school, and has a ten-year plan to become the second or third largest research university in the world. Big 10 aside, some students could care less about college ball and thankfully the U has more going for it than its sports program.

[northstar22]

I think the U is fine in Minneapolis, it's part of what makes it what it is, and it does add a little bit of college flavor to the Twin Cities.

If the U had to move, I'd be all in favor of putting it somewhere Up North like International Falls, East Grand Forks or Roseau. It would be the coldest campus in the country.