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Fiscal prgoressivism is basically neo-socialism. Its ultimate goal is to create a very small political class and then a large "peasant" underclass who depend on the government for survival. In a fiscally-progressive system (with high regulation, social programs, taxes, social security and other government intervention) the government workers become richer and the poor and middle class become destitute. People would literally starve in the streets under such a system. Also, people argue that the government would regulate itself: not gonna happen. Many beaurocrats and politicians would lie, cheat and steal to make an extra penny. Never underestimate the power of greed and selfishness.
This isn't the USSR. Has Europe, Canada, Australia or New Zealand turned out to be the way that you describe? Those areas have a hybrid socialist/capitalist system (which I support). The U.S. would have a similar outcome. I'll trust the government over fat cat corporate execs. At least we have the Constitution - the corporations have nothing but their own greed.
Those are some of the dumbest states in the country -- failing education systems. The "flagship" schools of those states couldn't even compete with lower tier universities here, much less the U of M. Why should we want to make Minnesota like the backwards Deep South? We're better than that.
Haha, everyone of those schools is ranked higher on US News than the U of M. I know US News isn't the be-all, end-all but to claim those school aren't on par with the top big ten schools is delusional. Just to throw in another school but Clemson University in South Carolina is even ranked higher than the U of M; so much for spending all our money on education cause I doubt South Carolina spends half of what we spend.
By the way Georgia students go to state universities (including UGA and G-Tech which are both higher ranked than Minnesota) for free because lottery ticket sales fund their tuition. It's called the HOPE program. How's that for a backwards education system.
This isn't the USSR. Has Europe, Canada, Australia or New Zealand turned out to be the way that you describe? Those areas have a hybrid socialist/capitalist system (which I support). The U.S. would have a similar outcome. I'll trust the government over fat cat corporate execs. At least we have the Constitution - the corporations have nothing but their own greed.
Has the US turned out the way you described? No we still have the best economy in the world with the largest middle class in the world and are doing much better than Europe, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia.
"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases."
— Thomas Jefferson
By the way Georgia students go to state universities (including UGA and G-Tech which are both higher ranked than Minnesota) for free because lottery ticket sales fund their tuition. It's called the HOPE program. How's that for a backwards education system.
My sister goes to UGA, so I know about Hope and the university system down there. I'm sorry, but it's not even close (Hope doesn't make school "free," either.) Those universities are not even close to Big Ten caliber - I don't care what the US News says. A degree from Minnesota (or Michigan, or Northwestern, or any Big Ten school) gets you much further than a degree from Georgia or South Carolina (especially outside of the south). I'd even take schools like Minnesota State or UMD over the southern schools.
There is a reason all of those Southern states are dead last in education. Dead last. Their education systems suck because they aren't given the funding they need to succeed. The South has always been last to make progress - last to abolish slavery, had Jim Crow laws well into the 20th century, still has the highest poverty rate in the nation. Corporations like the South because of cheap labor - the same reason they like China (which is communist) and Vietnam (also communist). Why should we emulate the South?
"Teaching our youth" is a joke? You must have been born with the ability to read and write then?
Yeah, because I really excelled in life from picking out nouns and verbs and reciting the state capitals and all that other BS they put us through, like the four months I spent playing with clay for my 'art' credit and the other four months I spent folding napkins.
The majority of the information we retain is from 6th grade down. In other words, the majority of people in this country have a 6th grade education. The rest after 6th grade is just re-hash, or goes deeper into the said topics you learned about in grade school.
I am a firm believer in independent study. 99.9% of the top 5% of a Class are independently intelligent..Meaning they have the knack of exploring and digging for facts and information themselves- Either by studying, reading books, watching movies, etc.
It's not like the Valedictorian in your graduating class was so smart because they attended the same classes k-12. Chances are is either their home life preaches education, or the individual has a desire to learn and expand their knowledge independently.
I read hundreds of books dealing with the foundation of our country, ranging from Free-Market economies to the idealologies of Capitalism before I walked into 11th grade, so you should have seen my eyes rolling watching the nerdy 36 yr old teacher getting paid $34,000 trying to explain to my bone-head peers the difference between the Judicial, Executive and Legislative branches of our government.
My sister goes to UGA, so I know about Hope and the university system down there. I'm sorry, but it's not even close (Hope doesn't make school "free," either.) Those universities are not even close to Big Ten caliber - I don't care what the US News says. A degree from Minnesota (or Michigan, or Northwestern, or any Big Ten school) gets you much further than a degree from Georgia or South Carolina (especially outside of the south). I'd even take schools like Minnesota State or UMD over the southern schools.
Minnesota will get you no further outside of the Upper Midwest than a degree with Georgia or Clemson will get you outside of the Deep South. Everywhere else in the country they're essentially the same. The way things are going though, the South has more jobs so a degree from a Southern Univerisity probably has more value. Schools like Texas, North Carolina, and Virginia are perfectly equal with Wisconsin and Michigan. Vanderbilt and Duke are equal with Northwestern and Notre Dame. Depite how much more money we dump into education, the South has just as many quality institutions as we have. I mean I like Minnesota, too but to claim UMD and St Cloud State are on the same level a Alabama, Auburn, or South Carolina is insane.
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There is a reason all of those Southern states are dead last in education. Dead last. Their education systems suck because they aren't given the funding they need to succeed.
Actually Washington DC has the worst education system in the country and guess what, DC spends more on education per pupil than any state (yes I know DC isn't a state but the points the same).
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Corporations like the South because of cheap labor
Well it's better to have cheap labor than be like Michigan with no labor.
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Why should we emulate the South?
Personally I believe we should emulate states like North Dakota which has an even better K-12 education system than we do despite also having low taxes. Western states, especially Colorado, but also the Dakotas, Nebraska, Montana, Idaho, etc would be the best to emulate. But the South would certainly be better to emulate than a state like Michigan or Ohio where the taxes and unions have absolutely crushed the economy and drove businesses out of state. I would think it's common sense to emulate states where businesse are flocking to rather than states where businesses are fleeing.
Higher spending on education also leads to less money actually going to education. How do I figure? Well higher education spending requires higher taxes which drives businesses out of state which decreases the ammont of wealthy tax payers which means less taxes are collected which means there's less money to go to education.
Minnesota will get you no further outside of the Upper Midwest than a degree with Georgia or Clemson will get you outside of the Deep South. Everywhere else in the country they're essentially the same. The way things are going though, the South has more jobs so a degree from a Southern Univerisity probably has more value. Schools like Texas, North Carolina, and Virginia are perfectly equal with Wisconsin and Michigan. Vanderbilt and Duke are equal with Northwestern and Notre Dame. Depite how much more money we dump into education, the South has just as many quality institutions as we have.
I disagree. Minnesota has a more prestigious reputation nationally than any Southern school not named Duke or Vanderbilt (which are both private universities). Ask someone in California whether the U of M or Mississippi (or Alabama, Arkansas, Clemson, etc.) is a better school. Maybe Virginia could compete, but VA is the most progressive Southern state (probably from DC's influence) and spends more on education. You can't put all state flagships on the same level. I'd rather have Minnesota on my resume than Georgia or Arkansas. You can't put all state flagships on the same level.
Also, the South's K-12 education system is abysmal.
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I mean I like Minnesota, too but to claim UMD and St Cloud State are on the same level a Alabama, Auburn, or South Carolina is insane.
I agree. It's insane to think Alabama or Auburn could compete (in academics, not football) with UMD and St. Cloud State -- they're below that level. Auburn?!?! Are you serious? Even Southwestern Minnesota State University and U of M Crookston are probably better than Auburn! I'm talking education quality, not name recognition.
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Actually Washington DC has the worst education system in the country and guess what, DC spends more on education per pupil than any state (yes I know DC isn't a state but the points the same).
Washington, D.C. is an inner city with many systemic and cultural issues such as poverty. Apples to oranges.
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Well it's better to have cheap labor than be like Michigan with no labor.
I'm from Michigan. Michigan's downfall was putting all of their eggs in one basket -- the auto industry. Minnesota has always had a diverse economy.
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Personally I believe we should emulate states like North Dakota which has an even better K-12 education system than we do despite also having low taxes. Western states, especially Colorado, but also the Dakotas, Nebraska, Montana, Idaho, etc would be the best to emulate.
Those states all have extremely low populations. Also apples to oranges.
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But the South would certainly be better to emulate than a state like Michigan or Ohio where the taxes and unions have absolutely crushed the economy and drove businesses out of state. I would think it's common sense to emulate states where businesse are flocking to rather than states where businesses are fleeing.
Those states relied too much one one industry. Minnesota doesn't meet that standard. The South will be in the same situation when jobs leave for Mexico and Vietnam because of cheaper labor. The rush to the bottom thing doesn't work.
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Higher spending on education also leads to less money actually going to education. How do I figure? Well higher education spending requires higher taxes which drives businesses out of state which decreases the ammont of wealthy tax payers which means less taxes are collected which means there's less money to go to education.
My sister goes to UGA, so I know about Hope and the university system down there. I'm sorry, but it's not even close (Hope doesn't make school "free," either.) Those universities are not even close to Big Ten caliber - I don't care what the US News says. A degree from Minnesota (or Michigan, or Northwestern, or any Big Ten school) gets you much further than a degree from Georgia or South Carolina (especially outside of the south). I'd even take schools like Minnesota State or UMD over the southern schools.
There is a reason all of those Southern states are dead last in education. Dead last. Their education systems suck because they aren't given the funding they need to succeed. The South has always been last to make progress - last to abolish slavery, had Jim Crow laws well into the 20th century, still has the highest poverty rate in the nation. Corporations like the South because of cheap labor - the same reason they like China (which is communist) and Vietnam (also communist). Why should we emulate the South?
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Originally Posted by flyingwriter
Why should we want to make Minnesota like the backwards Deep South? We're better than that.
Nice. I'm really getting the sense you don't travel much.... I'll bring you up-to-date. Much of the South is not as backwards these days as many Minnesotans (usually stuck under their rocks up north) make it out to be. I'm from MN and I FREAKIN' LOVE North Carolina... I got my master's degree much cheaper than I could have in MN, and I found an abundance of good jobs that enable me to do what I love. I pray to God unions stay away from this state. Seriously. I grew up around unions and they did very little else but protect the largely uneducated, usually over-paid, and often discontented worker. They were probably necessary in their day but that day has long passed into an era in which union leaders get big $ and power and generally drive companies overseas... oh, or to the "Deep South."
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Originally Posted by flyingwriter
Also, if our education system sucks, who are those behemoth corporations going to hire? There won't be any qualified applicants. They'll import talent from overseas, from countries where they value education.
Newsflash: They are doing it already. Cheaper labor and better educated, more serious employees. Our education system is generally good, but not great, on the global market -- especially when it comes to the "things that make the world go 'round" -- like science and math. We pay beacoup $ as taxpayers for very little return, in that regard.
Those states all have extremely low populations. Also apples to oranges.
Colorado has an extremely low population??? Geez, dude, you need to get out more. Or just quit making poor arguments.
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