Why has downtown Saint Paul become so much like a ghost town? (Minneapolis: 2014, apartment complex)

[Grizzly Addams]

I'll take W. 7th and Grand Ave. over any bar scene in MPLS any day. The people and bars in STP are more down to earth. Then again, I am from STP and enjoy the laid back lifestyle much more than the fast paced MPLS lifestyle.

[Govie]

The ballpark in Lowertown I think is going to be sweet, as long as they utilize it year round. Outdoor hockey there, for example, could be a winner. Plus the Saints I think do have a loyal fan base, as far as I know and from growing up with a kid who was a big supporter.

I used to think DT St. Paul needed clubs such as First Ave. and Aqua to draw more concerts, but I suppose at 31 years old now I've actually come to accept that St. Paul just is what it is and I just have to navigate to the other side of the river if some of that other stuff is what I'm after ATM. ,

As far as the casino comment(s), I have to agree it would probably attract a lot of trash, and that's not what St. Paul needs. We have enough trash from Chicago and Milwaukee as it is and we don't need more.

[chessgeek]

Once the ballpark for the Saints goes in, that may help improve things. A lot of St. Paul residents go to Grand Avenue for shopping/dining/bars. Stillwater draws a lot of visitors from St. Paul's eastern suburbs on the weekend, too.

I know in San Jose, CA where I used to live, the hockey arena for the Sharks improved downtown activity. Maybe the same will happen when the Saints start playing their baseball games in downtown St. Paul. Minneapolis has certainly benefited from Target Center (Lynx/T-Wolves/concerts) and the new Target Field.

[Mason3000]

Last year was a real kick in the crotch for DT St Paul as the Mn Wild signed the biggest free agents in NHL history and then went on strike. If they field a winning team next year and play a full season (which they will) it should help, but still that's only 40 home games. If they can go deep into the playoffs they could add another 10 games or so at the X.

The Lowertown Ballpark, I'm just not sold on. 5k people at 47 home games helps & I think it'll do better than that the first year before dying off. Outside of those 5k (many of whom are visiting fans, not that it matters for our purposes) people will go once to see the ballpark & probably never go back imo. It's a novelty act & once people can say they've seen the stadium I think that'll be it for most. The fact that we have a MLB team with a new stadium 15 minutes away can not be ignored.

I'm all for selling condos to people in Lowertown, but who's buying? The art scene is nice if you're an artist, otherwise you go down to check out some event once or twice a year. Also, it's nice to see some businesses re-signing in DT, but that's not enough I don't think? Why would anyone buy in DT St Paul unless they work DT & there's just not enough people to make it work I don't think.

At the end of the day St Paul is as they say "A city full of neighborhoods" so I prefer to focus on what I see as the low lying fruit. The Light Rail is already transforming the Midway area and Frogtown will get on board as well. When I moved into St Paul 2 years ago I was looking to buy a duplex in the Midway area & there were plenty of projects in the 50k range. My feeling is that with the proximity to the U of M and DT Mpls that the Midway area could see a lot of students & young professionals renting and either riding their bikes or taking the light rail. Today you aren't going to sniff a 50k duplex until you get East of Dale into Frogtown & even those are few & far between. University Ave (St Paul's version of E Lake St) has gotten noticeably nicer as light rail construction has advanced. New projects like the Hamline Station project or the new Sr Housing project @ Prior/University (or is it Fairview?), etc. will brighten things up. The Culver's & Popeye's that went in are just fast food joints, but at least they're new fast food joints & show a willingness to invest in the area. It's coming along.

I also like what's happening in Dayton's Bluff & Payne Ave. Those areas are a little further off still I think but they'll come around too.

I live in Summit-U, near Grand Ave. I think of it as St Paul's 50th/France. As much as I like the idea of the street, there's just nothing that draws me to it. Basically every shop on Grand Ave is geared towards women & the bars that exist aren't my kind of places. I've heard the Lexington was trying to get a rooftop patio license for years, finally got it & sold almost immediately after they did. If true it suggests someone has plans for that place & that would be a big boost.

Much more my style is Selby-Dale. Sorry to use so many Mpls analogies but I think of Grand Ave as Hennepin Ave (Shiny and happy), with Selby as the Lyndale counterpart with a little more soul & dirt under the fingernails. I'd really like to see Selby get developed between Dale & Lexington (everywhere else it seems pretty happening), but that stretch is pretty run down & I think the Summit-U planing council have a different idea of what "nice" is than most of the rest of the neighborhood does.

[Govie]

I'll probably go to more Saints games now that it will be a couple miles from me. I assume others from one of the fastest growing areas (Eastern suburb surrounding area Woodbury) will as well. Midway was nice but I suspect this move will benefit the club and promote even better attendance. Of course I could be wrong. About the art scene and the Lowertown neighborhood in general though, it seems to have its own little place as far as the metro in general:

Lowertown St. Paul gets a nod for its cultural scene

St. Paul's Lowertown is getting some national attention recognizing its thriving arts scene.

In a story about adaptive reuse (using old buildings for new purposes), the Saturday Evening Post includes Lowertown as one of "seven once-shunned areas now enjoying architectural and cultural renaissance."

Noting that artists started "flocking" to the area in the 1970s because of the cheap rent (along with high ceilings and good light) of some historic buildings, the piece says Lowertown has "one of the largest concentrations of working artists in the Midwest."

The online story includes a picture of the Twin Cities Jazz Festival at Mears Park and also highlights Lowertown's First Fridays events, the Art Crawls and Faces Mears Park bistro. Along with Lowertown, some of the other "thriving art enclaves" named are Los Angeles' Arts District, Portland's Pearl District and Brooklyn's Dumbo.

Lowertown St. Paul gets a nod for its cultural scene - TwinCities.com

And:

St. Paul's Lowertown has gotten hot without losing its charm

Relax with a "Macho Camacho" margarita at Barrio. Savor a Béarnaise sauce with French fries at Faces. Buy peonies at the Farmers Market. Dance barefoot in Mears Park to live jazz and blues. Maybe someday stroll into an artsy new St. Paul regional ballpark that's home for the minor-league Saints.

More than a decade after artists began migrating into the downtown St. Paul neighborhood near the Farmers Market, Lowertown is a boomtown, one of the hottest destinations in the metro area.

"Now it's a 24-hour neighborhood," said Terri Cermak, whose architectural firm has been in the Northwestern Building at 275 E. 4th St. for about 15 years. She and her husband, Todd Rhoades, said they chose the location for the price and the mojo. "There are so many artists down here, it's a really nice creative atmosphere," Rhoades said.

Once a sleepier part of town, Lowertown has burst onto the urban scene in recent years with new apartments and condos, music festivals, bars and restaurants. The 58 city-built luxury rental Lofts at Farmers Market were fully leased even before the building's grand opening. In the next couple of years, the Central Corridor light-rail line will be rolling into a busy, remodeled Union Station. More city-built apartments, a Lunds grocery store and a new city park are planned. The biggest prospective coming attraction is a Saints ballpark that would play host to an anticipated 150 events a year, drawing up to 7,000 people each time.


...

http://www.startribune.com/local/stpaul/159373645.html

[Ghengis]

Is the Oz Nightclub still open? A Discotheque is a guaranteed good time. Gotta get back down there and tonight is ladies night too!

Oh yes it's ladies night and the feeling's right
Oh yes it's ladies night, oh what a night, oh what a night!
Oh yes it's ladies night and the feeling's right
Oh yes it's ladies night, oh what a night

I can't seem to find where my platform shoes are? They were here a minute ago...

[roselily]

Honestly what has really hurt DT SP the last few years has been the lightrail construction. I know quite a few restaurants who were cut off completely during the construction, and lost TONS of business.

It was a real shame the Lowry Lab closed. It was a nice affordable theatre venue for smaller theatre companies. (They were forced out, BTW, they were doing fine financially)

[stuckinsj]

On the other hand. Light rail will bring alot of people to St. Paul..... all without cars & need for parking. Arriving in a city via great mass transit is so much better than driving... Its like boom your there. From all my experience the Green Line will bring the highest real estate values in the Twin Cities. With 2 downtowns, UofM, State Capitol, and more... lots of draws. Many of people will also be walking to and from the light rail stations making downtown look busier. I know the construction was hard on folks but that is over and its now time to reap the benefits.

[ManBearPig1]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Addams

I'll take W. 7th and Grand Ave. over any bar scene in MPLS any day. The people and bars in STP are more down to earth. Then again, I am from STP and enjoy the laid back lifestyle much more than the fast paced MPLS lifestyle.

Minneapolis does not have a faced paced lifestyle. It's bars still shutdown at 2. It has tons of all residential neighborhoods with single family homes. It's filled with the same quiet, reserved, passive aggressive Minnesotans at the end of the day.

Originally Posted by Mason3000

Why would anyone buy in DT St Paul unless they work DT & there's just not enough people to make it work I don't think.

Because you want to live in the city but work on the eastern half of the metro -- doesn't just need to be downtown.

[iNviNciBL3]

St. Paul: Penfield, light-rail, ballpark projects reshape downtown - TwinCities.com