Mpls. Reconsiders Cutting Off Booze and Music At Uptown Patios (Minneapolis: city hall, closing)

[rzzz]

This seems like the project of a single person with an axe to grind.
However, I found the quality of Uptown night life has really gone downhill over the past 15 years. It used to be fun people having a good time, now it's the typical frat boy weekend warrior date rapist crowd. Wouldn't really care if they manage to shut down Cowboy Slim's.

[Drewcifer]

Meg Tuthill has been calling the cops on her neighbors' parties for the last 25 years, even if it just a couple of people sitting on their porch having a few drinks. Now that she is on the city council she can do it on a bigger scale. This is her pet peeve, that is what is driving this.

That said, it is important to remember that the people who hang out in bars in Uptown, and the people who live in Uptown are not the same people. There is some overlap but a lot of the residents tend to be older. A lot of the kids who moved to the area in the 80s and 90s are now middle aged and are still there. They tend to not be big fans of the frat boy types who are walking around their neighborhood wasted.

[ManBearPig1]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

NIMBYism? Because neighbors don't want to contend with hard rock and drunks in the early hours? If Seattle is "leaving us behind" in creating neighborhood nuisances, let them surge ahead. Maybe it will cull the immature from our numbers.

Except there is no nuisance. I live within a couple blocks of, and can see out my bedroom window, many of the so-called "problem" establishments. There is no noise problem, unless you're expecting a vibrant, urban, commercial district on a weekend to be like Eden Prairie on a weeknight. The real problem is the bunch of curmudgeony residents who expect to be able to park their cars for free wherever they please and become aghast at people actually being out and enjoying themselves.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by west336

Why does everyone say this about Seattle -- it's not warm? It'd MILD, and that's pushing it 6 months of the year! Even SF is not "warm" much of the year, and that's 1000 miles South of Seattle.

Many people seem to hate subzero winters (or the thought of them) more than anything else. Seattle is very warm in the wintertime compared to anyplace in Minnesota. I wasn't referring to the summer.

[xandrex]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

Would have been valid ten years ago. But construction has ramped up the residential population. Nobody asked the bars if they wanted residential neighbors. But now they have them, and the people in those buildings vote. So it seems to me the bars better learn to bend. Life has changed.

While that's true, the residential life that has been booming has been people who know full well that they're moving into the Uptown area. These are the people complaining. When I had an internship at one of the neighborhood publications in Minneapolis, we wrote a few stories on Tuthill bringing this up. It was largely a small group of older residents who had moved to Uptown earlier in their lives for the vibrancy, but now were finally getting annoyed by the noise...but don't want to move themselves.

[GBCommenter]

This has been an interesting conversation for me. I intentionally threw the article out there and then as openly as possible asked for opinions. I didn't want to start the conversation with an angle - let the conversation flow naturally as possible.

That said, I think I'd be along these lines with my thoughts:

Originally Posted by xandrex

While that's true, the residential life that has been booming has been people who know full well that they're moving into the Uptown area. These are the people complaining. When I had an internship at one of the neighborhood publications in Minneapolis, we wrote a few stories on Tuthill bringing this up. It was largely a small group of older residents who had moved to Uptown earlier in their lives for the vibrancy, but now were finally getting annoyed by the noise...but don't want to move themselves.

I would be interested to know how many people have actually been in the Uptown area for 25-30+ years and might be able to argue seniority as a reason to object to the rooftops and noise/congestion. Though the rooftops bring a different dynamic I don't picture Uptown as a sleepy, rocking-chair-on-the-porch-watching-the-clouds kind of neighborhood anytime in the last 25-30 years. I think those who have moved in anytime in the last quarter century (and especially in the last 10-15 years) have a bit of a strained argument to say how put out they are and unexpected it was to have noise and quality of life issues.

I think I also have to agree with the idea that too many look at Minneapolis as "flyover country" and this doesn't help the perception (and I say that as one with little interest in the Uptown scene, but don't really spend time there either).

It finally also doesn't help the perception of Minneapolis as anti-business. It seems if Minneapolis wants to prove it, they should pass the ordinance - and then scratch their heads when more businesses close up, tax revenue spirals downward, and Minneapolis has that much more difficulty attracting large conventions to the city for its associated revenue.

There's my two cents on this...

[Beenhere4ever]

Originally Posted by ManBearPig1

Except there is no nuisance. I live within a couple blocks of, and can see out my bedroom window, many of the so-called "problem" establishments. There is no noise problem, unless you're expecting a vibrant, urban, commercial district on a weekend to be like Eden Prairie on a weeknight. The real problem is the bunch of curmudgeony residents who expect to be able to park their cars for free wherever they please and become aghast at people actually being out and enjoying themselves.

I don't live anywhere close to the destination for people whose idea of "fun" is offending neighbors. You say there is not problem. Be honest. No problem for YOU. Its a bit narcissistic to say "there's no problem until I SAY there is one." I think it likely that people who want to party loud to 2 am are gonna ***** about any attempt to say "no". To them. You see kids with the same personality in groceries stores screaming when they hear "no". I always wish the parents would just find someone to watch them long enough to get the groceries. What's the solution when the same mentality exists past drinking age? I guess contacting city government is it. Frankly, Minneapolis has laws. Asking for enforcement of them is every taxpayer's sovereign right. The guy who runs the cafeteria emphasized how he, the city, and the neighbors gave a little so that he could keep his business going. As for the outsiders, they can keep hunting for places where they can do whatever they want. Move to Seattle? I wonder just how badly some of these people would be missed.

[xandrex]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

I don't live anywhere close to the destination for people whose idea of "fun" is offending neighbors. You say there is not problem. Be honest. No problem for YOU. Its a bit narcissistic to say "there's no problem until I SAY there is one." I think it likely that people who want to party loud to 2 am are gonna ***** about any attempt to say "no". To them. You see kids with the same personality in groceries stores screaming when they hear "no". I always wish the parents would just find someone to watch them long enough to get the groceries. What's the solution when the same mentality exists past drinking age? I guess contacting city government is it. Frankly, Minneapolis has laws. Asking for enforcement of them is every taxpayer's sovereign right. The guy who runs the cafeteria emphasized how he, the city, and the neighbors gave a little so that he could keep his business going. As for the outsiders, they can keep hunting for places where they can do whatever they want. Move to Seattle? I wonder just how badly some of these people would be missed.

Judging by other posts I've seen by you, you seem to have a thing against younger people. Your posts always seem so...angry. As I pointed out in another thread, it seems to be one of those "dem darn yooooths" sort of mentality.

But the facts don't all line up in favor of your post. The ordinance was passed because of complaints (or at least a few complaints from people in high places), but there was no specific city law before. They wanted to pass an ordinance that would essentially kill rooftop bars. People go to places like Stella's or the Cafeteria because they want that vibe, especially in the summer. But Minneapolis was going to ruin that. I'm certainly for the reasonable responses and the deal the businesses and city have struck, but let's not pretend that this was some pre-existing law.

Nobody moves to Uptown (or has moved to Uptown in probably 20-30 years at least) expecting suburban-level peace and quiet...and if they are, they chose the wrong neighborhood. It would be like getting an apartment on Hennepin somewhere and expecting the traffic that a typical cul-de-sac gets. You move to Uptown for the vibrancy, the closest you can get to a scalable city vibe in the Twin Cities, and access to amenities.

[rzzz]

I think people actually are moving back to uptown and expecting certain levels of peace and quiet. The epicenter of the neighborhood is like a big upscale mall now, with a giant kitchen store, north face store, apple store, $5 coffee store, wine bars, CB2 furniture store, etc. This isn't Prince's "Uptown." It's trending a lot more yuppie.

[ManBearPig1]

Originally Posted by rzzz

I think people actually are moving back to uptown and expecting certain levels of peace and quiet. The epicenter of the neighborhood is like a big upscale mall now, with a giant kitchen store, north face store, apple store, $5 coffee store, wine bars, CB2 furniture store, etc. This isn't Prince's "Uptown." It's trending a lot more yuppie.

It definitely is trending more yuppie. In my experience though, those yuppies are the ones at Stella's and the like, while it's mostly people in the 50+ age range that are complaining about noise and such. But that's just my experience.