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our family of 5 currently lives in DC. I am central European and my husband American. we are (well, I am more than he is) getting tired of living in DC. The crime, the traffic, the bad schools, the hot and sticky summers and crappy winters. It is transient so a lot of our friends move away after two or three years. Plus the COL in this area is just through the roof!
I have been thinking of moving back home to Europe -but knowing how hard it would be on my husband, I also want to explore other options in the US. I would like a safe place with good schools where kids can grow independent. The independent is so important to me - a place where they can get to their friends, to school, to ice rink or swimming pool in summer ON THEIR OWN without mommy driving them all the time. Safe place where they could hop on public transport and get to a game/get some drinks/go to movies with friends when they are older.
I am intriqued by MSP - it seems walkable / livable and potentially a place that would fit the criteria above? I have done some research and it seems to me that neighborhoods like Linden Hills, SW MN - or St Louis Park (sp?) may fit the bill? Can you tell me about your life :-) - I am also looking at Boston/NH but that area is SO expensive, and competitive with so many overachievers there that I am not sure that is our style. We are very laid back - while I want my kids to do their best and explore all their options and strengths in life, I do not worry too much about getting them to Harvard :-)
When my husband and I started living in the US he would always tell me that if he could pick any place in the US he would pick MNSP. He has never been but he always talked about the music scene, the culture, and coolness factor :-) He has had your city stuck in his mind as a really neat laid back cultured place to live.
What do kids do when not in school, for example? Can your son hop on a bus and get to his swim practice, or daughter to iceskating? Can they bike to the pool, icecream, friends? Teenagers - can they get around without a car?
What do people do in winter? WHen people say it is so bad, like, how bad? Bad as in I cannot play in snow and iceskate b/c breath freezes in your nose? Is there enough indoor places - pools, ice rinks, gyms etc to hang out? While DC has good transport system, I would be extremely nervous sending my 12 yo since it is dangerous.
Where do you go to ski? I am a big skier (not expert but I love it) - are there any decent hills close by? I like cross country too but love downhill...Love iceskating and I saw some outdoor ice skating pictures from MN, skating on a lake, wow that is so cool :-)
What do people do in summer? Are there neighborhood pools kids can walk to and meet up and spend the afternoon at? Go to the lake? Do people invite neighbors over to grill hotdogs/burgers and chill out?
The thing about MNSP is that my husband could find a job relatively easily with so many F500 companies so it is not just a dream - and I could telework. We would NOT have any family around and if I settle somewhre I would have to build a community to be happy. We meet a lot of people through kids though even here, I notice when people have families around they are always busy with family stuff - meeting cousins, visiting gradnma, reunions etc. But I imagine there are enough people relocating to your great town that one can find friends? Do these transplants stay or move out in a few years?
Can you suggest some neighborhoods I can research and read about? Do you think I would fit in as non US person? It seems to me from research here that Linden Hills, Armatage (sp?), Lake Harriet are walkable and there are families (ie friends potential for kids) living there?
Any thoughts appreciated! I would love to see if we can come over for a few days during spring break (April). How would the weather be, generally speaking?
Thank you! Sorry I know this is very general and all over the place, I just want to find out the "general feeling " :-) so the questions are pretty vague I know!
I live in the Minikahda Vista neighborhood of SLP. And both this area and Linden Hills and the eastern portion of Edina - along with the Chicago and 44th area (sorry I dont know what that one is) sounds like a good fit. As for us - we are relocations so we have no family here. I have a teen and preteen - they are permitted to walk to Target, the Rec Center (ice skating in the winter/water park in the summer) CVS; the Movies; a bookstore and a variety of coffee shops and restaurants. In the summer they ride their bikes to Lake Harriet or Calhoun.
They have not taken the bus - but there is nothing around that cant keep their interests. They go to the public schools - which are nice and close (makes a huge difference for pre and post school activites).
OK - I'll take a stab at this. Below, I re-posted from another recent thread life in MN. If you don't know anyone here or have family here -- it will be tough, at first, I don't care what anyone else posts here, as I mention below, this area has changed in the past couple decades, but still, most people have lived here their whole lives and that can make it tough to make friends. You may have an easier time of it living in either Minneapolis or St. Paul proper. Also, pretty decent public transportation there (bus), but nothing like the East Coast cities. You really need a car here.
Unlike DC, we do NOT shut down when it snows! However, schools here were closed 5 days last month due to the severe cold, below zero temps and strong winds. This has been an extremely cold winter. Most winters in the past 10-15 years have gone like this: first snow that sticks, just before or after Thanksgiving. Temps from Dec. 1 to March 1 rarely get above freezing. Mostly teens and 20's for highs, with occasional dips below zero. That is NOT the case this winter. We're close to a record for # of below zero readings (~40 nights, and 4-5 days where it didn't get above zero). That being said, you get used to it (sadly). Get a good winter coat, insulating shoes/boots, good gloves/hat, and you are set.
Public schools here are generally good to excellent, others can chime in on that aspect. Cost of living would be a lot less than DC I'd imagine. And the summers, while not bug-free, are better than the East Coast. Humid as heck at times, but cool fronts come through with thunderstorms, and then you get some high 70-low 80's sunny days with a fresh breeze, mmmm, I'm dreaming of the days when that weather finally gets back here. Good luck with your decision.
"...my life started here. Met a girl, married her, have 2 kids nearing the end of their education here in a very good public school district. Cost of living is reasonable, too high in some areas compared to the rest of the U.S., a lot cheaper in other ways. Some taxes are high (income and sales tax) but they get you one way or another. In Houston TX (no state income tax) you can pay $6000 a year property tax on a house valued at $200K (someone in my family does!). Loads of sunny days in the summer, and 14-16 hours of daylight each day to enjoy them. Most people are pretty cool. The economy here is as diversified as anywhere in the country, and the manufacturing base is stronger than you think. I guess why I like it here is, whenever I travel someplace else, no matter how much fun I've had, it always feels good to come back home.
Things that bug me: endless, endless winter. Many years, spring lasts only a couple weeks, not months. Pro sports teams here are worse than any city except Cleveland and a few other places. You watch the Super Bowl and think: will the Vikings get to another one of these before I die? And the Twins, ugh. They played better in the Dome.
Passive-aggressive behavior, especially while driving. Nuff said!
I've lived here 24 years and depending on who I'm with, I can still feel like a newcomer. The population is more diverse than it used to be, but I still think the majority of people here have lived here their whole life."
Thank you for your responses, I appreciate it. I wonder about teh fact that it is hard to make friends. Is it that they are not interested? Like, you run into a nice person at your kids activity, you have a nice chat, right? Or do people not evven chat. Then you say hey, why dont you guys come over for grilling/dinner/coffee. Or, hey, do you all want to go iceskating together and then have dinner. Is it that people are just not interested in doing stuff together? Hre in DC people are just always so busy, work activity, kids activities etc. Or maybe come ones but never again? Just wondering...I am not the type of person to randomly chat to people on the street but for example it is nice to have a talk to parents at school. So wondering if joining the church committee for potluck, or PTA etc helps make friends?
Stillthesame - how do your teenagers like MSP? Would they imagine to live there or are they drawn away, to more exotic locations/bigger cities?
I have only been in MSP for a couple of weeks now, and I'm not a parent (married, but no kids yet) so you'll have to take my opinion with a grain of salt. So far I have found lots of people to be very friendly. We went to a church service last weekend and met quite a few people who were just lovely. I'm sure there are people who are unfriendly, but when I lived in NYC and the suburbs, I found the same thing. Lots of people who were friendly, but a lot who weren't friendly or we didn't click with. Honestly, I think it just depends on the person. Some people will want new friends, some people won't. I don't think you generalize an entire metropolitan area, just like I'm sure you, living in DC, wouldn't want to be generalized as those "too busy, always working" people. There are lots of ways to meet new people! You just have to put in effort and be willing for it to not work out with every single person you meet.
Thank you for your responses, I appreciate it. I wonder about teh fact that it is hard to make friends. Is it that they are not interested? Like, you run into a nice person at your kids activity, you have a nice chat, right? Or do people not evven chat. Then you say hey, why dont you guys come over for grilling/dinner/coffee. Or, hey, do you all want to go iceskating together and then have dinner. Is it that people are just not interested in doing stuff together? Hre in DC people are just always so busy, work activity, kids activities etc. Or maybe come ones but never again? Just wondering...I am not the type of person to randomly chat to people on the street but for example it is nice to have a talk to parents at school. So wondering if joining the church committee for potluck, or PTA etc helps make friends?
Stillthesame - how do your teenagers like MSP? Would they imagine to live there or are they drawn away, to more exotic locations/bigger cities?
In my experience, people are very friendly - they will stop and chat, are very thoughtful and helpful. I think the friendship issue is that you may not get invited to many people's homes, you may if at work go to happy hour, or have a block party annually, but a close den of friends with whom you spend a great deal of time may be hard to come by - in part because people have their lives (regardless of location) and in part because so many people here have family and friends close by, that their committments to them consume a large amount of their discrestionary time. That doesnt mean you wont go to dinner, a show or drinks, but you may not meet and maintain intense, deep friendships.
My children absolutely love living here - they have so much more freedom than they would in a larger city. Neither of them plan on staying in the state after high school though - they both plan to go to college and grad school in larger cities or other countries.
We lived in DC for a couple of years (in Woodley Park), and there are many things I miss about it. Winters in DC are MUCH better than in MN, as are the springs. Summer is much more comfortable in MN.
If public transportation is important to you, it's going to be a big step down coming to Minneapolis. It's okay, but it's no Metro. But if you pick the right neighborhood you can at least walk to a lot of places. Linden Hills is indeed really nice, and you can walk to many places. It has a NW DC feel. We live in Uptown, which we prefer because it is -- I think -- the most walkable part of the city, as well as has some of the best public transportation connections. Living by Lake Calhoun and Isles is also really nice. But Linden Hills is also really, really nice, very safe, and is filled with kids and teens. Southwest High School (which is very good) is located there, and your kids could very easily walk or bike to school, to stores, to visit their friends, etc., or safely take the bus. In fact, the high school kids in Minneapolis now take the city bus to school if they don't live close enough to walk; many others also bike, as people here bike year-round. The junior high kids I know bike places to visit their friends, go to the library, etc.
You'll fit in fine as a non-American. There are lots of people from other countries here. It definitely doesn't feel as international as does DC, but it's not unusual.
I think you can find a sense of community fairly quickly if you live in the right neighborhood and if you're proactive. In Minneapolis, each neighborhood has a neighborhood group; these people might not become your best friends, but if you get involved with the local neighborhood you could at least develop a network of neighbors you can talk to, hang out with, etc. And if you're at all politically-inclined that's a really easy way to meet people. If you ended up somewhere like Linden Hills -- which sounds like a really good fit -- there are so many people who are so involve in neighborhood activities that I think you'd be able to meet people fairly quickly. And if you're at all religious the churches and temples often have very active social groups and community activities. Minneapolis may well be difficult to make new very close friends, but I think in many ways the community involvement opportunities may well make it easier than in some places to at least develop a quick casual network of acquaintances.
If DC winters are too cold for you, however, I'd keep looking -- Minneapolis winters are quite a bit worse. Colder, snowier, and they just last longer.
Thank you, all. I appreciate your input. We currently live in MD suburbs of DC, not DC proper. We are 4 blocks from metro so going to work we metro but most other things, like mainly kids activities or visiting friends, we drive anyway since they are not accessible easily by metro or bus. We walk to post office, store, pizza, pool. The traffic and crime are such that I would not let my kid take the metro. People drive agressively and we routinely have muggings/muggings at gunpoint on the way from metro can you believe it, as soon as 8 pm not even in the middle of the night! Our house was robbed a few years back and so was our neighbors). Go figure - we are in one of the richest countries in teh US with the most reputable school system but that does not mean it is equivalent across, there are pockets of rich and many areas of so so...
What I meant by winter being crap here is that it is not warm like say Atlanta but it is not cold either. It is crap.No snow, sleet and mud. Too warm to even make good snow to ski (though this year is different) And schools closed ALL the time. Seems like since Christmas my kids have not gone to school at all, ha ha. I am Czech, soI can take winter :-) Our winter in CZ is cold though and people ski, and cross country and skate (or sit in a pub and drink beer ). Here in DC it is just blah. Yeah, the spring makes up for it with the blooming trees :-) Summers with humidity are wow just really hot. THought I am getting adjusted.
Can you please tell me about downhill skiing? Are there places within easy driving distance to go downhill?
I am impressed that the houses are rather reasonable in terms of pricing (coming from here) so if we had good schools (we have to send kids to parochial school now since our local state school is just really bad), htat alone would be huge cost savings. But mainly I just want my kids to get around on their own. Of course my dream is what we have back home where you hop on a tram, mom puts you on a train and grandma picks you up two hours later in her village. But if I cannot have that at least some approximation. And I love to hear about the community involvement. I think through church, neighborhood, school, if there are activities it is the first foot in the door of potential friendships.
Please keep thoughts coming. I want to talk wtih our family about coming at spring break to visit for a few days so knowing neighborhoods, parks, stuff to do would be awesome. Thank you. Hope you have a great weekend!
PS: What is the difference between Minneapolis and St Paul? IF you all talk about neighborhoods in Minneapolis, do you by default include St Paul as well or is there a difference? Thanks!
You will be able to find what you want all over MN, minus the great public transportation, but in many areas you won't need that either. The bus system in Minneapolis and St. Paul is ok and there are express buses into both cities from all around the suburbs so that will be your mass transit options for the most part.
Our kids grew up riding bikes to friend's houses, the pool, etc. Most kids that don't do that have parents that don't allow them to do that vs "needing" to drive them everywhere. Outside of a few areas, it's perfectly safe to walk, ride bikes, etc. in most areas of the metro. You will find better access and programs for sports, activities, etc. in the suburbs for your kids but Minneapolis has some programs too. Most communities have some kind of a public pool, lake, etc. for summer recreation.
Schools can't be beat for the shear number of top notch districts. Even the worst districts here, Minneapolis and St. Paul, are going to be heads and tails better than the DC schools.
Skiing--we aren't in the mountains so ski runs are shorter but there are plenty of options. Afton Alps is probably the biggest area and a company out of Vail just bought Afton Alps from the family that has owned and operated the ski hills and is sinking quite a bit of money into the place. North of Duluth is a good ski resort area, Lutsen, home to MN's "mountain". There are a lot of ski in/out resorts up there. There is always Buck Hill, which I usually call Buck Bump. It's not much of a hill but it's easy to get to. Lindsey Vohn learned to ski there, along with a few other Olympic skiers so it can't be all that bad. There are a few other places in the immediate metro area to ski as well.
There really are a lot of great places to look into but until you find a job (your husband) it's hard to suggest places. I would say that given your preferences that Stillwater is going to be the best fit for you hands down. Your kids would never need a ride anywhere, you can walk/bike everywhere in town. It's close to Afton Alps for skiing (you would have to drive though ). It's a very liberal community with a bit of a European Flair, highly educated community with great schools. No worries at all about being from Europe. Stillwater has it's own art/music scene but it's easy in/out of St. Paul and Minneapolis to enjoy more of that as well.
I'd suggest that your husband look at jobs at 3M. Many 3M'ers live in Stillwater and he could take advantage of the vanpools they offer..but it's an easy drive as well.
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). It's a very liberal community with a bit of a European Flair, highly educated community with great schools. No worries at all about being from Europe. Stillwater has it's own art/music scene but it's easy in/out of St. Paul and Minneapolis to enjoy more of that as well. 
