Does the German and Scandinavian influence in Minnesota create a cold, stoic and aloof culture?

[chessgeek]

The other thing I wanted to say while we are on the subject of either agreeing or disagreeing with this "Minnesotans being cold and aloof" notion..er nonsense actually (I strongly disagree as you have already read)..I have heard some other posters say when the topic is this one or Minnesota Nice that Minnesotans are polite and friendly, but not necessarily nice. To me, the three words are basically synonyms. Can anyone explain? To my way of thinking if you are friendly and polite, you are nice.

The other myth that has been propagated by what I think are just a few unhappy, hostile people on the forum that angrily threaten to leave your state (for attention because they are self absorbed) is that nice people are fake. Nothing could be further from the truth. That kind of puts you in a "no win" situation, because if you are direct and more confrontational, those same hostile people will then complain about that. Furthermore, a lot of confrontational people I have known are OK dishing it out, but they can't take it. In other words, hypocrites. Anyways, I am glad that most of you reject the nonsense that nice is bad or somehow a fake thing. With all the bad news in the world, we need it.

In California, many people are also nice (certainly not all). Where I believe MN and CA part are a lot of Californians are flaky and not real punctual. To the best of my knowledge, Minnesotans are reliable and usually punctual. My CA friends and I joke about the people that need to be told to arrive at 6:30 even though the dinner/event, etc will be at 7:00. Then they will be only a few minutes late! It is just part of the California culture and I have never accepted it and never will..still have to deal with it, though. I was left waiting at a restaurant for twenty five minutes recently (for three people!) and have resolved I leave after waiting fifteen minutes this year. That will help me maintain my serenity, right? Ha!

In the cell phone era, how hard is it to call or text and let the person know you are running late! Thanks for letting me vent and rant a little. Always keep that reliability, MN. It is not trendy to be flaky. I am sure glad I do not live in LA. I hear it is epidemic flakiness down there.

I hope that was not too direct, because I want to be nice...and friendly and polite, too.

[l12]

Originally Posted by chessgeek

I have heard some other posters say when the topic is this one or Minnesota Nice that Minnesotans are polite and friendly, but not necessarily nice. To me, the three words are basically synonyms. Can anyone explain? To my way of thinking if you are friendly and polite, you are nice.

I can explain this pretty clearly and concisely: Northern Europeans are "nice" in the sense of politeness, being on time, following the rules. Southern Europeans are "nice" in the sense that they will meet you on the street while waiting for a bus and invite you to their house for dinner immediately if they hear you are new in town. (But, they are also not as big on the polite, on time thing.)

Any place that was settled mainly by Northern Europeans, which is, the entire US with the exception of some coastal cities is going to be more nice in the first way. Any place that has more of the Southern Europe culture such as Latin America is more nice the second way.

I don't think Minnesota is hugely different from most of the US in this sense, and if they are it's only because there hasn't been a strong presence of Southern European people/culture here until recently. And I do think they are friendlier than Northern Europeans.

[chessgeek]

I appreciate that you have answered the question. However, valuing punctuality and politeness does not mean a person is cold, stoic, or aloof. The generalization you mentioned may be true, but I have a friend with Italian ancestry (believe it is 100%) who is very punctual and expects others to be as well. She is annoyed when some of her other friends are running late and don't call.

Again, thanks for explaining. I had never really thought of it in those terms. I would still warn people against over-generalizing based upon ethnicity. There will always be exceptions.

[l12]

I certainly would never doubt that there are many, many exceptions. Generalizations are just that, general. And especially in the US where people have mixed and form new cultures, it's very diluted. I think the generalizations are much more clear when you compare the cultures of Northern and Southern Europe and it only makes sense that that carries over to the US to some extent.

I am half Italian myself and my Italian family is also very punctual: they try to take the best of American culture (entrepreneurship, punctuality) and keep the best of the Italian culture as well (the food, gregariousness) and ideally that's what everyone does.
And in Southern Europe and Latin America too of course there are plenty of exceptions, people that are very punctual and complain about the inefficiency of the culture, but they are very clear that there is a predominant culture that is different from North to South and has both good and bad points on both sides.

And again, I don't think Minnesotan's are particularly cold, stoic, or aloof, I think the generalization is pretty blown out of proportion, because I think all of North America is pretty much the same, and if Minnesota is more than others, it's a very slight difference. I just don't think we as Americans have the same culture of extreme hospitality that Mediterranean/Latin countries/cultures do, and it is probably something we could stand to learn from.

I do think Minnesotan's are more responsible, diligent, punctual and hardworking than other states in a noticeable way, and if some are also slightly more aloof well, it's not such a bad tradeoff, especially because it's not like people in the rest of the US are SO friendly AT ALL. It's not as stark as the difference between Germany and Italy. Minnesota has the German efficiency and German friendliness, fine. But I think the South and a lot of the US has the worst of both worlds: Italian efficiency and German friendliness, and that's just a mess.