Why some neighborhoods get a bad rap (Minneapolis, St. Paul: 2014, crime)

[blackpointyboots]

I have seen discussions here and elsewhere about some parts of Bloomington being less desirable than others. The same commentary has been said about other burbs.

I was driving through Bloomington the other day and it struck me why. Driving down France everything is nice, green, landscaped. The sidewalks and streets are well cared for. I went east down Old Shakopee and you could see a massive change about Penn Ave. The landscaping stops, roads and sidewalks are less nice or in disrepair. There is much more industrial mixed in and everything is concrete and old strip malls. Many of the homes are more modest but people seem to keep them up for the most part. It appears like the city just stops caring about Penn Ave. I noticed the same thing driving down American Blvd.

So how the city cares for an area can have a major impact on how it is perceived and what the property values end up being.

[Mason3001]

Originally Posted by blackpointyboots

I have seen discussions here and elsewhere about some parts of Bloomington being less desirable than others. The same commentary has been said about other burbs.

I was driving through Bloomington the other day and it struck me why. Driving down France everything is nice, green, landscaped. The sidewalks and streets are well cared for. I went east down Old Shakopee and you could see a massive change about Penn Ave. The landscaping stops, roads and sidewalks are less nice or in disrepair. There is much more industrial mixed in and everything is concrete and old strip malls. Many of the homes are more modest but people seem to keep them up for the most part. It appears like the city just stops caring about Penn Ave. I noticed the same thing driving down American Blvd.

So how the city cares for an area can have a major impact on how it is perceived and what the property values end up being.

It's important to understand that Bloomington is essentially two cities, West Bloomington and East Bloomington. This is due to both to the massive size of Bloomington and the demographics. West Bloomington is one of the most affluent areas in the Twin Cities. It can best be described to outsiders as East Edina, as the homes/demographics/schools are similar and they border one another. East Bloomington has always been the blue collar side of Bloomington. Not bad by any means, but not the affluent White collar demographic of West Bloomington. East Bloomington is best compared to Richfield. It tends to me more diverse as minorities looking to escape South Mpls can find affordable homes there and the airport/MOA/hotels offer many decent paying blue collar job opportunities as well.

[froglipz]

Crime, high or low, that is the difference.

[blackpointyboots]

My point was that the city is treating it like two different cities in the way they maintain the public spaces. Blue collar or an offshoot of Edina, either way the city could maintain the roads and public spaces in a more equitable manner.

[Min-Chi-Cbus]

Originally Posted by blackpointyboots

My point was that the city is treating it like two different cities in the way they maintain the public spaces. Blue collar or an offshoot of Edina, either way the city could maintain the roads and public spaces in a more equitable manner.

You know, that's a really good point. I'd understand if both sides were being maintained well or poorly, but not one over the other. Doesn't the tax basis cover the entire city, or do residents of "West Bloomington" pay a different tax basis than residents of "East Bloomington"? Aside from West Bloomington residents being in a higher bracket WITHIN the Bloomington tax basis, I doubt it.

[pvoyd]

...you could see a massive change about Penn Ave. The landscaping stops, roads and sidewalks are less nice or in disrepair.

I have observed a change right around Penn Ave as well, though to me the change in the size and upkeep level of houses was more pronounced, compared to the city maintenance and landscaping level.

Of course, of one looks at Minneapolis and St. Paul, they have neighborhoods that are even farther apart than East and West Bloomington in appearance, SES of residents, crime level, etc., though the boundaries tend to be less clear, and often align with freeways.

[erin2882]

Originally Posted by pvoyd

...you could see a massive change about Penn Ave. The landscaping stops, roads and sidewalks are less nice or in disrepair.

I have observed a change right around Penn Ave as well, though to me the change in the size and upkeep level of houses was more pronounced, compared to the city maintenance and landscaping level.

Of course, of one looks at Minneapolis and St. Paul, they have neighborhoods that are even farther apart than East and West Bloomington in appearance, SES of residents, crime level, etc., though the boundaries tend to be less clear, and often align with freeways.

Yes, this.

[StPaulGal]

It's a chicken-and-egg situation.

Poorer people move into areas where property values are lower because that is where they can afford to live. Less well off populations have less ability to advocate for themselves with city planners--they have less free time to attend meetings, fewer personal connections to the elite that they can call upon, etc. Therefore, beautification dollars tend to go to the better-connected, wealthier areas whose residents demand them. The "nice" areas get nicer, the "bad" areas get worse, and the cycle is perpetuated.

I can pretty much guarantee that the city of Bloomington didn't arbitrarily designate one part of the town to be the "slum" and another part to be the "fancy" area. Those were conditions that developed organically.

[blackpointyboots]

I know Bloomington has a program to help people upkeep homes who need some financial help so they at least realize somewhat there is a problem. It was specifically designated for the east side.
The tax rate is the same for the entire suburb so the commentary about wealthier areas being squeeky wheels may have some merit.

[pvoyd]

Originally Posted by StPaulGal

It's a chicken-and-egg situation.

Poorer people move into areas where property values are lower because that is where they can afford to live. Less well off populations have less ability to advocate for themselves with city planners--they have less free time to attend meetings, fewer personal connections to the elite that they can call upon, etc. Therefore, beautification dollars tend to go to the better-connected, wealthier areas whose residents demand them. The "nice" areas get nicer, the "bad" areas get worse, and the cycle is perpetuated.

I can pretty much guarantee that the city of Bloomington didn't arbitrarily designate one part of the town to be the "slum" and another part to be the "fancy" area. Those were conditions that developed organically.

Interesting. I was following the recent developments at the Minneapolis Parks and Recreation Board (they were accused of racism in spending funds and promoting/punishing employees), and a follow-up article quotes per capita spending in North, Northeast, South and Southwest Minneapolis. "Parks and Rec allocated $243 per person in north Minneapolis from 2010-14. During the same time, Southwest received $85 for each of its 120,376 people, and South received $83 for each of the 136,160 residents. [...] Northeast received a curious $461 per capita for 66,915 people, but that discrepancy can be explained by the board’s acquisition and development of 5.5 miles of the Mississippi shoreline ... it doesn't have anything to do with neighborhood parks."

So in Minneapolis between 2010-2014, the poorest area (North) received about 3x per capita in P&R funding compared to the better-off South and Southwest.