Minneapolis - St. Paul Subway System (Duluth, Burnsville: houses, transfer to, construction)

[Hospes]

Hi!

Does anyone know if there is one planned? Or if there have ever been any proposals? I know there is a light rail system...but is there anything else planned?

I have been working on something for school...a subway system for M/S.P.

It was kinda hard making this...since I don't live in M/S.P. I relied on Google Maps to make sure the lines wouldn't go under areas that were only houses.

This is only one map...since two lines would connect M. with S.P. If you look at the map...the Green and Orange lines can go into S.P. They'd follow University Avenue and then go down Robert Street in S.P.

The squares are stations where people will get on/off of the train or transfer to another train.

Also...the lines don't just stop where the street names are...I didn't go over them so people know what street they are.

I do realize some lines are jagged.

Does this look good though? D: Do you think a subway system would be needed in M/S.P.? Does it look like it goes through the most populated areas of Minneapolis? Should I just scrap this and work on another city? Honest opinions please! Thanks to any that reply.

[knke0402]

There is the proposed University Cooridor, which is to connect the two downtowns by Light Rail, 15-mile line. The problems with that is that funding is becoming a huge issue, and lawmakers not seeing the immediate traffic alleviation from having light rail connect two downtowns, and not reach out to the suburbs.

Also, the last I heard the U of M wanted a stop, but didnt want to pay for it. So there has been some issues with that.

Right now, the Northstart Commuter Rail is starting construction, which will go from downtown MPLS to Big Lake along highway 10 with multiple stops along the way.

The inner city of Minneapolis isnt big enough to have an eternal tranist system like subway or train or light rail. The proper area of Minneapolis St Paul would be better off with a light rail system. There are talks of a Southern Cooridor Light Rail from the Mall of America to the southern suburbs of Burnsville, Lakeville, and Farmington. There is also proposals to having the highway 212 cooridor to reach out the the suburbs of Edina, eden prairie, chaska, chanhassen. Also there is talks of a high speed train to run from downtown Mpls to duluth along highway 35. I guess they want it to be a fast running train, like 87 mph, so it would be feasible for people to actually live in Duluth and work in the metro, or vise versa.

Again, its alll proposals and pipe dreams, since its all about money, and with the way things are going, money is pretty tihgt.

Check out Metropolitan Councils website, they have al lot of info

[Clifford63]

For somebody who does not live here, I am pretty impressed with what you posted. No subway plans that I am aware of, but there is light rail planned for downtown Minneapolis to downtown SP via university. Another run is planned from big lake to hook in with west end of current light rail near the new twins ball park.

[Alt Dach]

[quote=Hospes;5418080]Hi!

Does anyone know if there is one planned? Or if there have ever been any proposals? I know there is a light rail system...but is there anything else planned?

I have been working on something for school...a subway system for M/S.P.

It was kinda hard making this...since I don't live in M/S.P. I relied on Google Maps to make sure the lines wouldn't go under areas that were only houses.

This is only one map...since two lines would connect M. with S.P. If you look at the map...the Green and Orange lines can go into S.P. They'd follow University Avenue and then go down Robert Street in S.P.

The squares are stations where people will get on/off of the train or transfer to another train.

Also...the lines don't just stop where the street names are...I didn't go over them so people know what street they are.

I do realize some lines are jagged.

Does this look good though? D: Do you think a subway system would be needed in M/S.P.? Does it look like it goes through the most populated areas of Minneapolis? Should I just scrap this and work on another city? Honest opinions please! Thanks to any that reply.

Sorry, Capital of this magnitude in needed for speculation not for such silly things as frastructure. However, if it can be made a total scan(see Boston big-dig) ....................

[Ben Around]

There was a proposal to run the Central LRT line through a subway under the University of MN campus. Was a great idea, but ultimatly rejected as being too expensive. Instead, the line will run through campus on the surface, down Washington Avenue. There was also talk of running the Hiawatha Line through a subway from the Metrodome station to the Warehouse District Station. Also a good idea, but also rejected based on cost. The Hiwataha Line actually does run through a subway under the MSP airport, where the Lindbergh station is underground.

PS: I agree with Clifford, nice job on the map! Hope you'll post the final version for us to see!

[BlackOut]

This might be of some interest to you: www.metrocouncil.org/about/HistoryTransit.htm

At the same time, however, the Council blocked the MTC’s early efforts to develop a 37-mile heavy rail transit system such as those serving San Francisco and Washington, D.C. Instead, the Council developed its own plan for enhanced bus service. The two agencies battled in the Legislature over the issue through much of the 1970s and neither plan was ever implemented.

John Boland, who served as Council chair during much of that period, says that – in hindsight – the MTC may have had “more vision of what was coming.” At the time, Boland says, studies indicated that too few metro area commuters would use rail transit to justify the enormous cost. “Our planners and our Council members and a lot of legislators said our only realistic option was the bus.”

[BlackOut]

BTW, I like the system you've come up with.

My ultimate system would would be one similar to Moscow's. It's a hub and spoke system. There would be rail from both Minneapolis and St. Paul, including the current Hiawatha line, a line along 35W, 35E, and 394 and lines along the 494/694 bypass. From the bypass lines, there would be addtional lines leading to the suburbs.

Moscow's subway system
http://www.fakeisthenewreal.org/subway/img/moscow3a.gif (broken link)

[MplsTodd]

I like your interest in a subway. The current density of population in Mpls doesn't really support a subway system, and the capital cost would be very pricey and unlikely to get approved (unless the government was to stop spending money in Iraq and invest in public infrastructure). A case could be made for such an investment, given the high cost of gas and the need for our nation to reduce its dependence on driving.

That said, there actually are some concept plans for the prospective SW LRT line (serving DT Mpls to SW Mpls, St Louis Park, Minnetonka, Eden Prairie) which are considering a tunnel down Nicollet Avenue. You will want to check out www.minnescraper.com and look in the forum for Transportation for a section on SW Corridor.

[Hospes]

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

I'll check out all of the sites you've all suggested.

Thanks Clifford63, Ben Around and BlackOut!

BlackOut, I like Mowcow's subway a lot! I wish NYC's subway was much nicer like Moscow's!

MplsTodd, Minneapolis is actually more dense than Atlanta which has a subway system of its own. Minneapolis has 6,722/sq.mi. compared to Atlanta's 3,939/sq.mi.

Ben Around...here is the image...tinypic resized it though.

[MplsTodd]

Hospes:

I agree that Mpls is more dense than Atlanta. MARTA was originally approved back in the 1970s (perhaps due to the fact Pres Carter was a former Governor of GA????) when federal subsidy was something like 80% of total cost. Now, we're lucky to get a 50% federal match and the DOT has very strict requirements for approving the cost-benefit analysis of a line. That's why the tunnel under Washington Avenue at the U of M was removed for the pending Central LRT line.

So that's why I said that MPLS was unlikely to be able to afford a subway--believe me I'd love to see a subway line built!!