Brooklyn Center now half minority (Minneapolis, St. Paul: schools, college, gated community)

[Govie]

Originally Posted by west336

What are you driving at -- that minority slums are more violent so it's okay to accept prejudice towards them? This is clearly somewhat the case in America, but race does not equal crime everywhere and it's usually always a product of a multitude of factors. Poland and Russia are "ghetto white" for instance.

Ultimately what I'm "driving at" is that to see an area that used to be majority European (Scandinavian, Polish, Italian, German etc.) is now a 180 of what it used to be, and it's dissapointing. The crime is a symptom of that - one of the "benefits" of multiculturalism and dieversity. And for those of you delusional enough to think that balkanization will not occur, newsflash: it has already. That's why there is a "Latino town" on the west side and a mini "China town" in frogtown.

I blame the government for their oppressive approach to immigration, in addition to extremely liberal welfare policies which subsequently invited the lowest dregs of Chicago and Millwaukee and other undesirable areas of the country to leech off of us Minnesotans (although I'd be in favor of more liberal welfare policies if they did not invite outsiders, i.e., those who are not several generations' Minnesotans). I'm not trying to be provocative here, It's just the way I've lived through an area that in some respects has been devistated since the 80s until now.

[NYer75]

Originally Posted by Govie

Give 'em an inch, and they take a mile. Another couple decades and white folks won't even exist in the TC Metropolitan area. Why am I the only one who is troubled by that trend, and why do I feel like I will be vilified for expressing this?

Because it's racist. Trouble by the trend, because it's not so white. If you don't see how that is racist, that's the problem!

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Govie

Give 'em an inch, and they take a mile. Another couple decades and white folks won't even exist in the TC Metropolitan area. Why am I the only one who is troubled by that trend, and why do I feel like I will be vilified for expressing this?

Because your thinking is based on the prejudices of the pre-1960's era, stuff people like me don't want to be around.

[captaincatfish]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

Because your thinking is based on the prejudices of the pre-1960's era, stuff people like me don't want to be around.

LOL...I have this habit of reading threads on City Data 'most every day---and then sticking my nose in and speaking my mind when I run across an interesting topic...and this is no exception

I'm sorry if that gentleman has a problem with areas with increasing minority populations, but tough noogies---this is the United States Of America, not the 'United States Of I'm Gonna Get REEEEAL MAD 'Cause Those Pesky Darkies and Asians And Hispanics Are Spoiling My Vanilla-Perfect Neighborhood!'

Time out already for all this divisive backtalk...take your 'crime increases when minorities move in' statistics and, frankly, stick 'em...there are a LEGION of hard working minority groups of every stripe, who have busted their collective a**es and been good citizens, and have earned the right to live where they want to live...as well as other whites who are not as well-off but have risen up from daunting circumstances to do well for themselves

Standing with your arms folded and mean-mugging and channeling Bull Connor, because you can't have your Oz-like vision of 'the good old days' (read: when minorities 'knew their place', and it was behind people who thought like you) is juvenile and time-wasting, and won't cut any ice with people like me...sorry for your luck, but you don't get to make the rules---if minorities move into Brooklyn Center, and the quality of life there gets better because they are adding positives to the community, then that kinda renders your argument useless, now doesn't it?

[eastside38]

Just keep working towards that ban, Govie!!!

Poverty and seclusion from general society is a cause of crime, not race alone. Take, for instance, the meth labs in white rural America. There was a report on ABC a while ago about the upsurge in meth lab explosions in one of the poorest counties of Kentucky. All of the meth lab people they spoke of were white. A white person running a meth lab is as much of a detriment to society as a gangbanger, thief, or drug addict of any other race or creed, no matter where they live.

There can be safe communities of working poor, however, no doubt about that.

[uptown_urbanist]

I think that neighborhoods like Cedar-Riverside, in particular, are very symbolic of America; my Scandinavian ancestors would probably recognize that a lot more than they would, say, some new subdivision or a mall. It's always been a neighborhood with a heavy immigrant population. At one point it was heavily Scandinavian, not it's largely east African. In another 50 years there will probably a new immigrant group living there. It's the American way.

And if a few people decide to move from the Twin Cities because they don't like non-white people, well, I'm perfectly happy about that. Those aren't the kind of people I want for neighbors, anyway. And again, I've got to wonder where exactly they're going to go: white flight wasn't about people fleeing entire metro areas, it was about moving to the suburbs from newly integrating neighborhoods. Like it or not the United States is becoming increasingly diverse in terms of skin color (it has always been diverse in terms of ethnicity).

This might be as good a time as any to point out that at one point the Irish were considered by many to be a different race, and employment or rental ads would openly say "no Irish need apply." The nature of racism and discrimination against people based on their country of origin or their religion changes with time.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by Govie

Give 'em an inch, and they take a mile. Another couple decades and white folks won't even exist in the TC Metropolitan area. Why am I the only one who is troubled by that trend, and why do I feel like I will be vilified for expressing this?

I think whites will represent the vast majority of the Twin Cities population for the next 100 years, barring something like a Chinese invasion or something.

[Govie]

Originally Posted by captaincatfish

if minorities move into Brooklyn Center, and the quality of life there gets better because they are adding positives to the community, then that kinda renders your argument useless, now doesn't it?

That's where you FAIL. The crime has risen in the area. If memory serves me correctly, doesn't it have the highest homicide rate in the suburban TC - coinciding with this enriching increase in dieversity you speak of?

[PokerPlayer1]

Originally Posted by captaincatfish

take your 'crime increases when minorities move in' statistics and, frankly, stick 'em...

You sure make a compelling counter-argument.

Originally Posted by captaincatfish

if minorities move into Brooklyn Center, and the quality of life there gets better because they are adding positives to the community, then that kinda renders your argument useless, now doesn't it?

Absolutely. If minorities move into a white area and the quality of life improves, that's a great thing. The problem with that is it simply never, ever happens. When a 'neighborhood changes' and the inevitable occurs with the standard of living, well, we've already seen how people like you treat that. You simply say "STICK YER STATISTICS WHERE THE SUN DON'T SHINE!!!!" and dismiss the real world, as if your own ideals on race and 'integration' and 'diversity' somehow act as a trump card to how things play out in reality.

I live in Chicago, in an area more 'diverse' than anyone in Minnesota can imagine. I see this stuff on a daily basis. To me, 'diversity' isn't some grandiose ideal that we're all supposed to aspire to, so long as it exists safely within the confines of 'theory' - I can live in my lillywhite suburb like Edina or Eden Prairie, yet take the self-congratulatory position of 'supporting diversity' so long as it's happening to someone elses neighborhood.

I see the practical consequences and outcomes of "diversity" every single day and have had this discussion too many times; I know there's no point in belaboring the position. All I can say is that I hope all the white 'diversity cheerleaders' get exactly what you wish for. I hope you get all the 'diversity' that your area as to offer, in your neighborhood, in your childrens schools, around workplace and around your home. I hope it all comes right to you and when it does, I'd love to have this discussion again.

My paternal side of the family is from MN and I love them very much, but I've never met a more naive, sheltered group of people than your typical "middle class and above" Minnesotan. Egalatarianism is fine, but people up there seem to take it as a suicide pact, simply because so many have so little practical experience with this sort of thing. If they did, their opinions would be very different.

[west336]

Coming from someone from Chicago, the most racist city in the country! Chicago's diversity isn't unique to Chicago, so you don't have to flaunt how diverse Chicago is and how nobody in MN knows what diversity is. Half of my family lives in Chicago and everyone there hates everyone else....that's a Chicago problem, that's not normal.