Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
A couple years ago the Star Tribune ran a story about the IB program in Minneapolis, it was referenced here at the time, feel free to look it up and at that time there were 99 kids district wide in the IB program-pretty much a handful in each school.
I did look that one up one time, but by that point the thread had been closed. If memory recalls right the article that you referenced discussed the number of IB Diploma candidates at Henry High School. I think the misunderstanding took place when you read "Diploma Candidates" to mean "IB students". Those are very different statistics, and they should not be used synonymously.
Let's make this very, very clear for anyone interested in this: there are FAR MORE than 99 students in the IB program in the MInneapolis school district. The Star Tribune article never stated that number, and even if it did (which it did NOT), the fact is that you can call up the schools and ask the numbers. I believe the district-wide number was the number of seniors currently going for the full Diploma at two schools. And, as I noted, about 1/3 of the Southwest student body is in the IB program. Not all of them will seek the entire Diploma route, but between them they take hundreds of IB and AP tests each year. It's similar to how not every AP student takes seven AP courses.
It sounds like you don't have much familiarity with the IB program or the Minneapolis Public Schools; nothing wrong with that (I don't have much familiarity with the Rosemount schools, for that matter), but if you have an interest in how the program really works or who is involved then I'm sure the school would be happy to give you a tour and answer any questions.
In any case, your assumptions are based on a misunderstanding of an outdated Star Tribune article. Or, possibly, a very different definition of "handful" -- Southwest's IB program consists of around 1/3 of the student body. I don't think that's just a handful, but perhaps our definitions are different.
In general, though, I'd just use those rankings to get a general sense of the place, rather than obsess over specifics. I think most reasonable people would say that this does make it tough to make sweeping negative statements about the quality of listed public schools such as Southwest, though. I don't believe in the concept of any one "best" school in a state, but I think you'd have to work pretty hard to explain away these rankings to say that it's all "garbage," based on such small numbers as to be insignificant, or otherwise so flawed that it becomes meaningless. Not every kid at a school like SW is going to be headed for academic success (the same goes for any other school on the list, whether city, suburban, small town, or rural), but these rankings do make it clear that the school is providing the opportunities for those who are willing and able to take advantage of them.
Last edited by uptown_urbanist; 06-14-2010 at 02:25 PM..
hmm Kind of like when colleges use "Top half of your class" or "top 50% of your class"
Such a BS statistic. I was 110/219 graduates (but 25 kids did not graduate)
I went to an exurban High School, where there was less of a "Suburban Mentality"
Meaning, less students had White Collar, professional parents, as it was a blue-collar, working class community. So, with it being a blue-collar, working class, rural-like community, Acadamia wasn't emphasized as much as it would have been in a more suburban, white collar type school
So what that meant, is there were a large number of not only boys, but girls as well who had no determination to go to post-secondary schooling after high school, and this was apparent in early as 10th grade. So, when you have girls taking classes like foods III, and Ceramics III, and guys taking Welding III and Woods III, and Weight Lifting III, because they know they are going to go to a Tech or Community College and NOT going to a University, that really screws over people like me, who knew I wanted to go to a four-year University. So, while I'm taking 'Literature of our Nation's Wars', writing 10 page technical papers as an 11th grader, and my peers are taking "Outdoor Lifestyles II", getting A's while I struggled to get anything higher than B's.
This resulted in me looking like some slacker student, while Joe Johnson gets a 3.58 GPA because his schedule this quarter is "Outdoors II", "Sports Science", "Greeks and Romans" and "Woods III". Getting A's in Outdoors, SS, and Woods, while struggling to get a C in G&R because that class actually requires work
hmm Kind of like when colleges use "Top half of your class" or "top 50% of your class"
Such a BS statistic. I was 110/219 graduates (but 25 kids did not graduate)
I went to an exurban High School, where there was less of a "Suburban Mentality"
Meaning, less students had White Collar, professional parents, as it was a blue-collar, working class community. So, with it being a blue-collar, working class, rural-like community, Acadamia wasn't emphasized as much as it would have been in a more suburban, white collar type school
So what that meant, is there were a large number of not only boys, but girls as well who had no determination to go to post-secondary schooling after high school, and this was apparent in early as 10th grade. So, when you have girls taking classes like foods III, and Ceramics III, and guys taking Welding III and Woods III, and Weight Lifting III, because they know they are going to go to a Tech or Community College and NOT going to a University, that really screws over people like me, who knew I wanted to go to a four-year University. So, while I'm taking 'Literature of our Nation's Wars', writing 10 page technical papers as an 11th grader, and my peers are taking "Outdoor Lifestyles II", getting A's while I struggled to get anything higher than B's.
This resulted in me looking like some slacker student, while Joe Johnson gets a 3.58 GPA because his schedule this quarter is "Outdoors II", "Sports Science", "Greeks and Romans" and "Woods III". Getting A's in Outdoors, SS, and Woods, while struggling to get a C in G&R because that class actually requires work
Maybe it did negatively affect you, but any sensible university would look more closely at each individual's transcript to see what kind of courses they took. If you took more challenging courses it would be acknowledged from a college entrance perspective, at least by Universities who do their homework.
Back to the list, Minneapolis South always seemed to make the list in past years. I wonder if the fact that they refuse to give up their Liberal Arts and "Small Learning Communities" programs in favor of IB, which seems to be the current triendiest HS program.
Last edited by Cruz Azul Guy; 06-14-2010 at 02:58 PM..
Maybe it did negatively affect you, but any sensible university would look more closely at each individual's transcript to see what kind of courses they took. If you took more challenging courses it would be acknowledged from a college entrance perspective, at least by Universities who do their homework.
Back to the list, Minneapolis South always seemed to make the list in past years. I wonder if the fact that they refuse to give up their Liberal Arts and "Small Learning Communities" programs in favor of IB, which seems to be the current triendiest HS program.
haha, Slig, you know I went to SCSU! LOL
Just Kidding, it was in fact my success at a few particular sports and the 'weight' of the courses I took which got me into school.
The year I applied for colleges, SCSU's admission rqmts were harder than NDSU's where I almost went
Back to the list, Minneapolis South always seemed to make the list in past years. I wonder if the fact that they refuse to give up their Liberal Arts and "Small Learning Communities" programs in favor of IB, which seems to be the current triendiest HS program.
The rankings treat AP and IB equally, and while South doesn't have IB it does offer AP courses.
This year they added a new evaluation category, so maybe South took a hit as a result: "It is the Equity and Excellence rate, the percentage of ALL graduating seniors, including those who never got near an AP course, who had at least one score of 3 or above on at least one AP test [or a score of 4 or above on an IB test] sometime in high school."
I think Southwest undoubtedly does benefit (for the purpose of these rankings, anyway) from the fact that its attendance area is a mostly middle- to upper-class part of the city with a lot of highly educated parents. The IB program draws from other areas, of course, but they're the same kids who are helping to raise the rankings since they're actively taking IB courses and tests.
I still think Henry is probably the most impressive on the MN list, given its high percentage of poverty (74% free or reduced lunch, compared to 34% at SW, 32% at SLP, 10% Edina, and 6% in Wayzata); a lot of these kids aren't exactly being handed everything on a silver platter. While I don't anticipate we'll be living in Henry's attendance boundaries when my son is in high school, if it continues to thrive as it is now I would have absolutely no problems sending him there.
Even if South isn't on the list doesn't mean it's not an excellent school. It could also be that more kids there are now taking post-secondary classes rather than the AP courses, for example. I didn't want to pursue that option while in HS as my high school classes were good and I wasn't in a rush to try to get through college in less than four years, but now that college tuition is skyrocketing and aid dropping I would assume that more students are seriously considering that option. In any case, the rankings are far from perfect, but they at least show that there are good educational options out there in all parts of the state. (and, of course, many great schools that don't make the list.)
Hmm... I'd investigate that more closely before jumping to any conclusions. And even if true in TX, is that true of any of the schools on the MN list? It's not true of Southwest, and I doubt it's true of the next schools on this year's list (SLP, Edina, then Minnetonka).
From their explanation of the rankings:
"We do not include any magnet or charter high school that draws such a high concentration of top students that its average SAT or ACT score significantly exceeds the highest average for any normal-enrollment school in the country. This year that meant such schools had to have an average SAT score below 1,975 or an average ACT score below 29 to be included on the list."
The Minneapolis schools are rated ONLY on the kids in the IB program, read the footnotes. It is in no way a representation of the entire school.
The Minneapolis schools are rated ONLY on the kids in the IB program, read the footnotes. It is in no way a representation of the entire school.
Where does it say that? The footnote I saw said that Southwest offered both AP and IB. I didn't see the footnote that you're referencing. The FAQs explicitly state that they take the number of IB or AP tests given and divide that number among graduating seniors (all seniors). (they also adjust to eliminate the potential of double counting those students who take and IB and an AP test in the same subject) FAQ: America's Best High Schools: The FAQ - Newsweek
I don't understand why you are insisting that is in no way a representation of the entire school. Every student has access to many of those courses and tests. Not every single student is taking advantage of them, but that's true of any school -- and that is one of the factors incorporated into these rankings.
I think some people simply have a difficult time acknowledging that their stereotypes of what it means to be a "city" school don't match up with the on-the-ground reality.
By all means please do provide the link or citation if you're seeing something that I'm missing.
The Minneapolis schools are rated ONLY on the kids in the IB program, read the footnotes. It is in no way a representation of the entire school.
AND, for that matter, even if it's only the IB kids who are being ranked (which makes no sense), given that 1/3 of the student body is in IB then it's still tough to say it's not representative of the school. (which doesn't even begin to count the AP courses and students)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
