It's raining in December? (weather, near, farmer)

[southernsmoke]

Originally Posted by west336

It's talking about global warming actually causing higher tree growth, which should be expected. (Think the Jurassic time era and how the entire planet was tropical and lush). As fossil fuels are released from the crust of the Earth back into the atmosphere it reintroduces itself as the plantlife that it once was (it's believed that fossil fuels derive from decayed plant life millions of years in the making, when the world was covered in plants). This DOES NOT mean that global warming won't impact the planet GREATLY, however.

I must admit, a Minnesota that doesn't get so damn cold AND has natural lakes and forests sounds very attractive to me -- a silver lining in an otherwise gray future.

Originally Posted by AGuyFromCleveland18

Sure, the Earth will survive and life will prevail, I don't think any scientist will debate you about that. The issue is at what cost? Rising temperatures will cause huge changes on this planet. Species that we depend on may die. Sure, new ones will grow, and we might adapt, but perhaps the expense of the needed adaptation will cost us our civilization. Civilization arose during a remarkably stable era climatically in Earth's history. If the stable weather patterns that allowed civilization to arise suddenly change, we may find ourselves SOL with depleted food sources, uninhabitable cities, etc. Humanity may go on, but it will not be humanity as you know it.

There are so many layers to the whole AGW argument that it is kind of astounding how many people fall into this trap:

(1) You have to figure out whether you think the earth is supposed to be "warming," "getting more extreme," or something else.

(2) You have to show that this (i.e., either warming or extremes or whatever) is actually happening--a challenge (if you are intellectually honest) because we have not measured these things comprehensively and with consistent precision for a very long period of time, relatively speaking.

(3) You have to show that people are actually the cause of these changes--a huge challenge, considering (i) the relationship between temperature and CO2 that appears to show temperature changes causing CO2 changes, rather than the opposite, and (ii) the scale of our CO2 emissions relative to the earth's entire atmosphere.

(4) Unless this is all just a useless thought exercise, you also need to prove that we could control the global climate by making certain choices (e.g., green building, no vehicles, fluorescent lights, etc.)--a rather pompous and naive view, in my opinion.

(5) Even if you could show all of that, you need to demonstrate why the status quo is the optimal global climate situation (i.e., even if humans are causing the climate to change in some way and could keep the climate from changing if only Americans elected enough liberal Democrats, why is it a problem if the climate changes? how do you know what climate is the best climate?). After all, humans have survived a number of dramatic sequences of climate change throughout history and always managed to progress in terms of technology and civilization.

To be honest, I'm not sure which of these I think is the hardest for AGW supporters to show, but I do think that (1) and (2) could be proven at various points in time if we had complete and accurate data. (I have little doubt that the world's climate has varied over the course of history.) But I'd love to see someone try to convince me of (3), (4), and (5). (I won't hold my breath.)

I believe that it is for this reason that most of the climate talk/press we hear from the AGW types concerns news of warming (e.g., global temperatures, ice melt, etc.) and/or extreme weather events (i.e., things that would tend to prove (1) and (2)), with occasional speculation that humans are causing it (which would tend to prove (3)). Most of the "science" cited to support the AGW thesis is responsive to (1) and (2) above. While AGW propaganda often assumes the truth of (3) and (4), rarely does anyone even overtly discuss (4) or (5).

[Minnesota Spring]

It's still raining on December 28th! How whimsical.

[west336]

I am a proponent for Sustainable living moreso because it wastes less precious resources that aren't very renewable (like oil or water) that future generations will need and WILL run out of at some point in the near future without change. We don't need to consume as much as we do and it would be a great thing if we could be more environmentally sustainable. Whether this impacts the weather directly or indirectly is more of a tertiary concern for me (the seconday concern being cost, or: "people, profit, planet").

[sholomar]

just amazing weather for the dakotas and MN. I hope we don't get a snowflake all winter. On another note, some new years eve pictures from fairbanks, ak

//www.city-data.com/forum/alask...-eve-40-a.html

"It was 51 below in McGrath when we went to see the fireworks."

[snofarmer]

Originally Posted by stockwiz

just amazing weather for the dakotas and MN. I hope we don't get a snowflake all winter. "

You may want to rethink that.
The snow insulates the ground.
Without some snow cover the frost will go deep in to the ground freezing septic systems & water pipes.

We have been in a drought, the ground is dry.
When this happens the frost goes even deeper.

This will also set us up for flooding in the spring as the frozen ground can't absorb any water.

[AGuyFromCleveland18]

Supposed to be close to 50 tomorrow and temps above freezing the rest of the week. I hate this! I want to ski and skate outside.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by AGuyFromCleveland18

Supposed to be close to 50 tomorrow and temps above freezing the rest of the week. I hate this! I want to ski and skate outside.

Yes, I hate the fact that the ground is still bare along with a complete lack of snow. GFS computer model shows a "pattern change" by the middle of the month, but I'm not confident at all of snowfall at this point.

[Minnesota Spring]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

Yes, I hate the fact that the ground is still bare along with a complete lack of snow. GFS computer model shows a "pattern change" by the middle of the month, but I'm not confident at all of snowfall at this point.

I'll take this over the crap we had last winter. Remember the drifts so high you couldn't see into the street, shoveling your driveway practically every other day, the blowing snow and the sub-zero windchills.

No thanks, I prefer the 54 degrees and sun we had today, provided that we get a bunch of rain in the spring to erase this drought

[ET_MTB]

I miss winter.

[ET_MTB]