The MN Chat Thread! :D (St. Cloud, Bemidji: home, casino, taxes)

[snofarmer]

Those clover leafs in MPLS are the most dysfunctional things in the state.

What engineer thought it would be a good idea to mix decelerating traffic with accelerating traffic.

[iNviNciBL3]

Originally Posted by snofarmer

Those clover leafs in MPLS are the most dysfunctional things in the state.

What engineer thought it would be a good idea to mix decelerating traffic with accelerating traffic.

Must be the same engineer who designed the spaghetti junction in downtown St Paul

[iNviNciBL3]

Originally Posted by stockwiz

Sticking to the currently discussed topic they still have yield signs on on-ramps in south dakota, which I always found backward. Technically if a person merges and gets hit because the person in the right lane decided they didn't want to move over I think it's the person merging's fault. The whole purpose of on-ramps is to reach near interstate speeds to facilitate smooth entry onto the interstate, not yield to wait until it's clear. Rarely have an issue though. Most people will move over. I guess that's why some like to hug the left lane. They don't want to be bothered having to change lanes at all.

I have noticed that but people still merge since theres not much traffic, hey was it you who mentioned 55 mph speed limits in rural MN vs 60 in SD in a different post? I just heard on the news about a bill that would increase Minnesota speed limit on rural roads from 55 to 60

[snofarmer]

Originally Posted by BobMarley_1LOVE

I just heard on the news about a bill that would increase Minnesota speed limit on rural roads from 55 to 60

I heard that about 10-15 years ago.

Here is the law.

171.174. Subd. 2.Speed limits.

(a) Where no special hazard exists the following speeds shall be lawful, but any speeds in excess of such limits shall be prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable or prudent and that it is unlawful; except that the speed limit within any municipality shall be a maximum limit and any speed in excess thereof shall be unlawful:
(1) 30 miles per hour in an urban district;
(2) 65 miles per hour on noninterstate expressways, as defined in section 160.02, subdivision 18b, and noninterstate freeways, as defined in section 160.02, subdivision 19;
(3) 55 miles per hour in locations other than those specified in this section;
(4) 70 miles per hour on interstate highways outside the limits of any urbanized area with a population of greater than 50,000 as defined by order of the commissioner of transportation;
(5) 65 miles per hour on interstate highways inside the limits of any urbanized area with a population of greater than 50,000 as defined by order of the commissioner of transportation;
(6) ten miles per hour in alleys;
(7) 25 miles per hour in residential roadways if adopted by the road authority having jurisdiction over the residential roadway; and
(8) 35 miles per hour in a rural residential district if adopted by the road authority having jurisdiction over the rural residential district.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by BobMarley_1LOVE

I have noticed that but people still merge since theres not much traffic, hey was it you who mentioned 55 mph speed limits in rural MN vs 60 in SD in a different post? I just heard on the news about a bill that would increase Minnesota speed limit on rural roads from 55 to 60

There are some roads that have the 60 MPH limit already. They are part of a accident study to help determine if the roads can go to 60 ---nevermind everyone drives around 63 or so already on those roads. They put those limits in about 6 years ago or so. I know Highway 71 is one of them--212 west of the metro might be as well, 23 is in spots but 65 where it is 4 lanes.

[iNviNciBL3]

I think everyone should just try to keep a nice flow of traffic, driving up north on those 1 lane in each direction roads theres people who go the at or below the 55 mph speed limit and theres people who go 60 - 70 mph, and i sure see alot of dangerous passing and people tailgating.

Some people in Minnesota sure need to learn to step on the accelerator a little more

[Clifford63]

Originally Posted by stockwiz

Sticking to the currently discussed topic they still have yield signs on on-ramps in south dakota, which I always found backward. Technically if a person merges and gets hit because the person in the right lane decided they didn't want to move over I think it's the person merging's fault. The whole purpose of on-ramps is to reach near interstate speeds to facilitate smooth entry onto the interstate, not yield to wait until it's clear. Rarely have an issue though. Most people will move over. I guess that's why some like to hug the left lane. They don't want to be bothered having to change lanes at all.

If a vehicle enters highway traffic and gets hit by existing highway traffic, they did not merge. They entered highway traffic unsafely. This is why the on ramp has the merge sign instead of the interstate. Opinion varies on this, but my view here is that on ramps are meant to be used in a way that a vehicle can enter traffic safely by adjusting speed and location of the merge. It can be difficult in certain situations, but most often there is plenty of opportunity to locate existing traffic, decide if the merge should happen before or after that car, and use the accelerator as needed to be in the correct merge location. It would be considerate of existing traffic to move to the left lane to make merge easier for traffic entering the highway, but this is not always possible.

Too often drivers on the entrance ramp seems to be in lala land. They have plenty of space in merge in front or behind, but they maintain course and speed that will cause a crash forcing existing traffic to guess what merging driver intends to do. The driver entering the highway should reasonably assume that existing traffic will maintain a steady speed. That is the safe way to merge and the reason why yield signs are given to cars on the on ramp.

Some drivers think the burden of merge goes to existing traffic, but that seems backwards to me.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by Clifford63

If a vehicle enters highway traffic and gets hit by existing highway traffic, they did not merge. They entered highway traffic unsafely. This is why the on ramp has the merge sign instead of the interstate. Opinion varies on this, but my view here is that on ramps are meant to be used in a way that a vehicle can enter traffic safely by adjusting speed and location of the merge. It can be difficult in certain situations, but most often there is plenty of opportunity to locate existing traffic, decide if the merge should happen before or after that car, and use the accelerator as needed to be in the correct merge location. It would be considerate of existing traffic to move to the left lane to make merge easier for traffic entering the highway, but this is not always possible.

Too often drivers on the entrance ramp seems to be in lala land. They have plenty of space in merge in front or behind, but they maintain course and speed that will cause a crash forcing existing traffic to guess what merging driver intends to do. The driver entering the highway should reasonably assume that existing traffic will maintain a steady speed. That is the safe way to merge and the reason why yield signs are given to cars on the on ramp.

Some drivers think the burden of merge goes to existing traffic, but that seems backwards to me.

The one problem with the cloverleaf design and merging is that the existing traffic has much better line of sight to "time" the merge than the ones coming off the cloverleaf. The newer ones have a much better merge lane but the older ones, say 36 and 694 out by you, the lane to merge is so short. If the existing traffic would move over like they are supposed to, it wouldn't be an issue. Those that are taking the exit should get in behind the accelerating traffic, not pull in front and slow down.

[Clifford63]

Originally Posted by golfgal

The one problem with the cloverleaf design and merging is that the existing traffic has much better line of sight to "time" the merge than the ones coming off the cloverleaf. The newer ones have a much better merge lane but the older ones, say 36 and 694 out by you, the lane to merge is so short. If the existing traffic would move over like they are supposed to, it wouldn't be an issue. Those that are taking the exit should get in behind the accelerating traffic, not pull in front and slow down.

I was primarily talking about a standard entrance ramp previously. 36 and 694 is one of the worst cloverleafs and I use it often. Cloverleaf does create a lot more danger because you have some wanting off and some wanting on in a tight space. I generally do fall in behind people when exiting in that situation because you have to slow pretty fast before you get into the leaf and doing that in front of somebody that is trying to accelerate creates a problem.

The car coming on to the highway would be much as I described before, but they would want to be more aggressive about merging in ahead of existing traffic and make it clear what the intent is. Seems like most of the problems in this setup come out of this part. Oncoming car does not accelerate fast enough or the exiting car does not give them enough space - mostly this is a perception/fear the oncoming driver would perceive though. Timid or inexperienced drivers are quite vulnerable to that.

That section of 694 is still 2 lane, which is also a contributing factor.

[iNviNciBL3]

I remember not too long ago there was ALOT of road work on 494 and 694 in the east metro, they upgraded 494 to 3 lanes, but its confusing because the auxiliary lanes have no sign warning drivers when its going to end, and they dont use the square shaped lines on the road like they do everywhere else.

694 they repaved it which is great but i was expecting them to add a third lane, would of been nice but i guess you cant have everything