02-15-2012, 01:55 AM
Location: East St. Paul 651 forever (or North St. Paul) .
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Is it just me, or wasn't this on the table a few years ago? I could have sworn there was discussion of just renovating HHH to the tune of something like half of the billion they want for an Arden Hills type site.
02-15-2012, 04:48 AM
Location: Bel Air, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Govie
Is it just me, or wasn't this on the table a few years ago? I could have sworn there was discussion of just renovating HHH to the tune of something like half of the billion they want for an Arden Hills type site.
I don't claim to be a structural engineer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!
Actually as a Facilities Mgr in downtown Mpls for many years and with a bit of experience in parking structure repair I think I can offer some perspective in this.
Assuming for this discussion that the primary goals would be to widen the concourses (say by 40 - 50 feet), add additional restrooms and build more luxury suites, I think what may be the biggest problem is that the site the metrodome sits on just can't accommodate a wider footprint.
5th and 7th Streets in the picture (Wikipedia) below can't be moved without affecting the LRT, utilities buried in the street and the Energy Center to the South of 7th St.
Building up is also problematic because you would have to provide the additional structure to support the additional weight which at that point means you are significantly gutting the lower bowls to tie the completely new upper structure back into the bedrock. Here are two links to pretty good plan view of the metrodome's structure...
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/gsapp/BT/...RODM/met02.jpg &
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/gsapp/BT/...DM/2709-26.jpg Which are part of perhaps the most detailed Metrodome construction info available out there...
Metrodome: Main Menu
There's a bunch of other things (and no doubt many I can't think of) that are less obvious to remove and rebuild as well. All the additional restrooms (I've heard they are looking for double what they have now), concession areas, suites, offices would require and produce and generate a corresponding larger amount of water. All of those systems as well as electrical and the steam and chilled water from the energy center across the street, would have to be re-installed all the while while working around existing structures and systems.
I think most any construction professional would agree that in taking the effort to protect and preserve what little components could be saved you'd end up spending more than what it would take to build the structure from scratch. Really, I can't imagine what you could save outside of the playing field and perhaps the lower seating bowl that sits on grade right now. So, really...what's the point?
02-15-2012, 08:36 AM
Location: The Flagship City and Vacation in the Paris of Appalachia
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It is mainly a financial issue and the Vikings are currently one of the least profitable teams in the NFL. They need a newly built facility to compete with the other teams in terms of sponsorship revenue, luxury ticket sales, concessions, and merchandise. A newly built stadium offers more food options, more points of purchase for merchandise, more luxury suites/club level seats and possibly exterior restaurants and other revenue generators. Not saying I agree with the idea of always building new, but the problem is the standard has been set by other NFL teams and the Vikings are currently operating under an antiquated financial model. With this being said, whey can't the league or owners foot more of the bill than the taxpayers?
02-15-2012, 12:31 PM
Location: East St. Paul 651 forever (or North St. Paul) .
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Interesting. I just thought there was discussion out there that this was an option. I guess I was just wrong or this was just hearsay?
02-15-2012, 01:05 PM
Location: Bel Air, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Govie
Interesting. I just thought there was discussion out there that this was an option. I guess I was just wrong or this was just hearsay?
No, you are correct. BC Place in Vancuver is virtually a replica of the Metrodome (or vice versa). They recently completed a renovation of that stadium in what grew from a $200M to a $560M project. Aside from ending up with a retractable roof, the improvements were generally asthetic in nature; renovated suites, corridors, new chairs, clubhouses, etc. I'd post a link the Yelp reviews but think that is against TOS but they are easily found and the reviews are luke warm at best. The roof is significantly higher apparently and provides more indoor space in that regard and some translucent panels were added at the top of the seating bowl, but...really...for nearly $600M, would anyone be happy with this erector set design in downtown Mpls?
from Wiki...
02-15-2012, 02:55 PM
Location: MN
1,669 posts, read
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghengis
No, you are correct. BC Place in Vancuver is virtually a replica of the Metrodome (or vice versa). They recently completed a renovation of that stadium in what grew from a $200M to a $560M project. Aside from ending up with a retractable roof, the improvements were generally asthetic in nature; renovated suites, corridors, new chairs, clubhouses, etc. I'd post a link the Yelp reviews but think that is against TOS but they are easily found and the reviews are luke warm at best. The roof is significantly higher apparently and provides more indoor space in that regard and some translucent panels were added at the top of the seating bowl, but...really...for nearly $600M, would anyone be happy with this erector set design in downtown Mpls?
I have read and heard complaints about the renovated BC Place that basically sound like the same complaints about the Metrodome, plus their retractable fabric roof leaks.
02-15-2012, 04:29 PM
Location: East St. Paul 651 forever (or North St. Paul) .
2,860 posts, read
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Reputation: 1446
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghengis
No, you are correct. BC Place in Vancuver is virtually a replica of the Metrodome (or vice versa). They recently completed a renovation of that stadium in what grew from a $200M to a $560M project. Aside from ending up with a retractable roof, the improvements were generally asthetic in nature; renovated suites, corridors, new chairs, clubhouses, etc. I'd post a link the Yelp reviews but think that is against TOS but they are easily found and the reviews are luke warm at best. The roof is significantly higher apparently and provides more indoor space in that regard and some translucent panels were added at the top of the seating bowl, but...really...for nearly $600M, would anyone be happy with this erector set design in downtown Mpls?
That thing is pretty ugly.
Be that as it may, I really hope the HHH stays around. It's so legendary. The only venue to host a MLB All-Star Game (1985), a Super Bowl (1992), an NCAA Final Four (1992 & 2001), and a World Series (1987 & 1991).
Then again, I understand economics and the fact that eventually it will just have to go.
02-15-2012, 07:13 PM
Location: MN
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A lot of people are failing to realize how un-tech savvy the Metrodome is. There are no big screens (The new one @ Target Field is 9x the size). There hardly any televisions in the concourse. I haven't been there since the Twins' last game, but I can't remember any wi-fi or mobile - device accomodations. There is no pro-shop or main restaurants/food places/bars.
02-15-2012, 07:24 PM
Location: M I N N E S O T A
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New BC place looks perfect in Vancouver, that roof would probably look awesome in MPLS
02-15-2012, 09:39 PM
Location: Bel Air, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
BobMarley_1LOVE
New BC place looks perfect in Vancouver, that roof would probably look awesome in MPLS
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People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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