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These are all valid arguements and I think that there maybe some justifaction for small businesses to get a small break. However, if they are unwilling to adapt to the changing times they will no longer be able to function properly. There are many other things that can be done to accomidate the smokers. I have been to many bars in Minnesota and California where there is no smoking allowed in them and they have setup specific areas outside and inside that allows for a comfortable atmosphere for smokers that is not considered part of the bar. i.e. Duluth MN, Grandma's sports garden has the whole top of the bar specifically set aside for smokers to go up and have a smoke. I have been known to go up there to have a smoke if me so choose. Minneapolis MN, not sure of the bar name, has a sheltered outside area and small heaters to make a more comfortable outside smoking area (even in the coldest temperatures). This option is not expensive either. There will be initial investments that need to occur on both accounts but it is up to the business owner to recognize which give his business the biggest benefit. There is room for improvement and the businesses to capitalize on the new laws are the ones who are going to come up with creative ways to make it comfortable for their smoking customers and retain them.
I believe, the way the law now reads, you can't smoke in 'any' enclosed space. Meaning, you have to have only an open air setting. Not exactly the best situation in MN in the winter.
Basically, what this is going to impact the most is the small, working man's bar. The ones that didn't have a huge profit margin to begin with.
*Laffin* There is still one indoor smoking area though. It's in the Federal Building in Duluth. Seems neither the state nor the city laws can be applied to it cuz it's under Federal control and there's no Federal law against smoking. I'm sure they'll figger out a way to close that loophole, now that it's been exposed though.
Minneapolis MN, not sure of the bar name, has a sheltered outside area and small heaters to make a more comfortable outside smoking area (even in the coldest temperatures). This option is not expensive either. There will be initial investments that need to occur on both accounts but it is up to the business owner to recognize which give his business the biggest benefit. There is room for improvement and the businesses to capitalize on the new laws are the ones who are going to come up with creative ways to make it comfortable for their smoking customers and retain them.
Thanks for at least seeing that there is a problem for small businesses.
Investments in such accommodations for smokers is expensive. The small patio (smoking area) that I have put in cost about $2500.00 ( heaters and patio pavers) and I haven't been able to afford any sort of wind break, yet.
In NM, there is no smoking inside whatsoever. Patio area cannot be enclosed. The cost of putting up any structure (shelter) is costly and for small businesses that are losing money nearly impossible to afford. You have to have permits, inspections, and county approval, let alone, the money to build the structure. What do you think is inexpensive? When you don't have the revenue you can't afford the changes.
The cost of propane heating is about $150.00/week and I keep them on low just enough to take the chill off. We have had a mild winter this year but it has dropped into the single digits and that is when our smoking clientele heads for the homestead and warmth. Even with the heaters, it's just too cold and windy (the patio is canyon side). The non-smoking clientele has always been virtually non existent in my bar and those that come here don't care about the smoking ban, they could care less if someone lights up.
When the warmer weather comes, I'm sure I'll see our clientele come back. Until then we are struggling and hope that we can make it through 'til then.
Some of you may remember that I posted right after the smoking ban went into effect. Initially we lost business (for a week or two) and then it started to rebound, the rest of October and part of November was ok, because it was still in the 40s and 50s outside and nobody really minded stepping out for a smoke. Well it's January 3rd and our bar shut down on midnight on the 31st of December. The bar lost so much of it's revenue in the last six weeks and the owner is selling and can't even afford to keep the bar open until the purchase closing on January 8th, and we don't even know if it will pick up enough for the new owner to keep it running. So I, being a single mom, don't know how I am going to pay my rent in the coming months. I am sick to friggin death of people whining about it's not fair that I can't go into a smoky bar without smelling like smoke. Hey guess what if you ride a bike you might fall down and get hurt. So if you don't want to fall down and get hurt don't ride the friggin bike. MORONS! Don't whine and **** and moan until the goverment destroys all bikes. People have been smoking for hundreds of years, maybe thousands, in some form or another. All of a sudden in the last 20 years we've decided no one should smoke anymore because it's bad for you. Guess what! Maybe in 100 years they'll discover milk is bad for you! Or chocolate? The simple fact is a bar is a place where people CHOOSE to go, even the employees, as Minnesota is an at will state, no employee is FORCED to work in a bar that allows smoking and no owner is FORCED to allow smoking in their bar, no one is FORCED to patronize a bar that allows smoking. This country was founded on free enterprise. In the eternal words from the movie Field of Dreams "if you build it they will come", if you have more non-smoking bars available, more non-smokers will go there, but that shouldn't be at the expense of the smoking bars. I have tried to quit several times and probably should try to quit again, but the rebellion nature that lives inside of me (which is why I started in the first place, to be a rebel) can't bring myself to fall in line like an idiot. I will quit when I am damn good and ready and not when my government or a few whiny non-smoking constituents try to FORCE me into it by making me uncomfortable and shunning me.
Glitter,
I am sorry that you have lost out with the smoking ban. I am struggling to keep my bar afloat, most of my clientele were smokers. I don't understand why non smokers don't put their money where their mouths are and open their own non smoking bars!
I hope the New Year has a turn for the better for you & your family.
I am happy to at least see all of the sensible ppl are talking on here and making everyone understand.. I am agreeing to the sensible reply and not the ones were ppl are *****ing about how smokers should be living... we don't **** how non smokers are...
Chicago just enacted a smoking ban on Jan. 1 as well. My brother is the general manager of several upscale bars and restaurants in the tourist district downtown. You would think if any bar was unlikely to lose business, it would be be his -- WRONG.
After only 5 days, he has seen significantly fewer people in the bar. But those who do come are spending significantly less.
Scranton, PA had a short-lived renegade public smoking ban in 2007 that was repealed after it was ruled unconstitutional because there was not yet a statewide ban in place (I know it sounds stupid, but you have to realize you're talking about Pennsylvania here).
At the time all of Scranton's bars and restaurants suffered tremendously as smokers boycotted them in order to flock to establishments in adjacent suburbs. The best example of this was a bar on one corner in the city's southernmost block being empty while another bar a block south in the adjacent suburb was packed.
I myself don't smoke and hate having to sit and dine while inhaling cigarette emissions, but it's not worth shuttering every establishment in the city over when your city has more smokers than non-smokers. I'll just stick to the very few establishments that have taken it upon themselves to ban smoking.
Chicago just enacted a smoking ban on Jan. 1 as well. My brother is the general manager of several upscale bars and restaurants in the tourist district downtown. You would think if any bar was unlikely to lose business, it would be be his -- WRONG.
After only 5 days, he has seen significantly fewer people in the bar. But those who do come are spending significantly less.
Five days after New Year's Day and business is down? Compared to what? People stay out of bars (and most everywhere else) immediately after the new year starts. I don't think you can judge anything by five days alone.
Besides, I'm glad Illinois passed a REAL smoking ban. The Chicago "ban" had so many loopholes it looked like swiss cheese.
I just talked to some friends last night that own a bar/restaurant in town and they said their business has easily doubled since the smoking ban. They remodeled taking out the smelly stuff and updating the look and opened as a smoke free place and it has been PACKED in there.
Some of you may remember that I posted right after the smoking ban went into effect. Initially we lost business (for a week or two) and then it started to rebound, the rest of October and part of November was ok, because it was still in the 40s and 50s outside and nobody really minded stepping out for a smoke. Well it's January 3rd and our bar shut down on midnight on the 31st of December. The bar lost so much of it's revenue in the last six weeks and the owner is selling and can't even afford to keep the bar open until the purchase closing on January 8th, and we don't even know if it will pick up enough for the new owner to keep it running. So I, being a single mom, don't know how I am going to pay my rent in the coming months. I am sick to friggin death of people whining about it's not fair that I can't go into a smoky bar without smelling like smoke. Hey guess what if you ride a bike you might fall down and get hurt. So if you don't want to fall down and get hurt don't ride the friggin bike. MORONS! Don't whine and **** and moan until the goverment destroys all bikes. People have been smoking for hundreds of years, maybe thousands, in some form or another. All of a sudden in the last 20 years we've decided no one should smoke anymore because it's bad for you. Guess what! Maybe in 100 years they'll discover milk is bad for you! Or chocolate? The simple fact is a bar is a place where people CHOOSE to go, even the employees, as Minnesota is an at will state, no employee is FORCED to work in a bar that allows smoking and no owner is FORCED to allow smoking in their bar, no one is FORCED to patronize a bar that allows smoking. This country was founded on free enterprise. In the eternal words from the movie Field of Dreams "if you build it they will come", if you have more non-smoking bars available, more non-smokers will go there, but that shouldn't be at the expense of the smoking bars. I have tried to quit several times and probably should try to quit again, but the rebellion nature that lives inside of me (which is why I started in the first place, to be a rebel) can't bring myself to fall in line like an idiot. I will quit when I am damn good and ready and not when my government or a few whiny non-smoking constituents try to FORCE me into it by making me uncomfortable and shunning me.
i'm sorry but this is just stupid. the research has been done and it is clear that smoking not only affects the health of the person doing it but all the people around them as well. the law isn't that nobody is allowed to smoke, they just need to do it in areas that won't harm innocent bystanders, i.e. outside. what is the big deal about having to step outside for 5 minutes, have your stupid cancer stick and then come back in.
the problem is that no business owner is willing to take the bet that going non-smoking won't hurt their business and as long as that was taking place, smokers continued to violate non-smokers rights of going into a public building and having clean air to breathe. what were we supposed to do, leave and go to the next bar with the same amount of smoke.
it's a minor inconvenience to have to step outside for a few minutes to smoke a cigarette, especially compared with the inconvenience of a non-smoker having to breathe that garbage every time you set foot in a bar or restaurant.
and as far as restaurants go, much of the time the seperation between smoking and non-smoking was just a joke. the smoke goes almost everywhere and if you are within 20 feet of a smoking area you are still getting your lungs doused in smoke.
as far as i am concerned the smoking ban was absolutely the right thing to do and raising the tax on cigarettes is even better. these people are a drain on our health care system and if taking their money causes them to quit, that's good for america.
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