Employers are exploiting the unemployed (for sale, buyers, school)

[Ottie28]

I have been interviewing for almost 6 months now and have received a couple of offers recently that were unbelievably low. So low that it made it impossible for me to accept them and I had to move on. I realize it's a buyers market but I don't believe that means employers have a license to exploit people looking for work or take advantage of their situation. I have a degree, 10 years experience, an outstanding resume and references and yet I continue to feel as though they think they've got me over a barrel and are going to stick it to me. Don't get me wrong, I am in NO way expecting to earn the same money. I am at bargain basement rates already and am still being sent terrible offers. On the last one my husband asked if I laughed when they went over their awesome offer.
Are there any employers currently interviewing/hiring out there? I'd like to get your take on this. It's really discouraging.

[shizzy]

I had one place tell me I had to quit school if I wanted to work for them.

I then repeated I was available for the hours they were requesting and if it meant quitting school for a $12 hr job then my answer was no. The lady was dumfounded that I declined her "amazing offer"

Sadly I took a job at Wally World since they had no issue with me returning to school in the fall. Im making less then half what I was before I was laid off last march but it did give me a boost in confidence having a place to be every day.

[Camden Northsider]

Ottie,

I think there is some truth in that many employers are not paying what they used to yet are able to still get highly qualified, eager candidates due to the economy. Employee retention, although still a big concern, isn't nearly as big as it used to be in many cases- this gives companies the ability to "try someone out" for a lot less, reducing the risk of initially offering a high salary to someone that might be a so-so performer. Also keep in mind that many employers/ companies/ organizational entities are just trying to keep their businesses afloat these days so can be very constricted by the bottom line as well. Before jumping to a conclusion that an employer is exploitative because they can be right now, I think a number of questions would have to be asked:

Did the employer significantly decrease the pay and/or grade of positions that used to earn a lot more at their company in the past year or two?

Is there a significant/ abnormal disparity in pay between exempt and non-exempt employees? Between senior employees and new hires working in similar positions/ areas?

I your specific case, I would ask a few more questions as well. Are you applying for positions highly similar to those you formerly worked in, with a similar level of responsibilities? Are you applying to companies of the same caliber?- e.g., did you formerly work at a Fortune 500 and are now applying for positions at smaller or family-owned entities? And was part of your previous high earnings due to having seniority at your last company which (outside of experience qualifications) might not be reflected in the starting pay of a new job? Are you asking about opportunities for advancement?- is there a possibility that a company might be offering a lot less to start nowadays but in turn are quickly rewarding the employees that do very well? Are you negotiating with the hiring manager after receiving a job offer?

I think your experiences could easily have been avoided were you to have listed your salary requirements when submitting cover letter/ resume. Employers/ hiring managers usually have a very good idea of exactly what they are going to pay in any position prior to externally advertising it- if you have specific salary requirements that are non-negotiable, by listing them you're saving yourself and that hiring manager a lot of time and energy.

[Ottie28]

Hello Camden

Thanks for the response, it's exactly the kind of insight I was looking for. To answer some of your questions, there were recently two situations that came about I can give you details on. I am in sales, the last 10 years has been software sales so my income has always been based on my performance - that's why I like sales, you always know how you're performing and I perform very well.
Both companies were small and privately owned so I went into it assuming the pay would be significantly lower, like less than half of what I was making before. I was really looking for a position with a future, not just cash.
One offer was for a base salary that is typical in my industry (in general, only a third of total income comes from the base salary the rest is from commission) but with no commission plan and a "three month trial". So basically I'd have to just hope I could negotiate later on but really had no idea what I could expect in terms of an income range. Also, this offer included 3 different major projects to work on and only one of the three involved doing sales work that generated revenue. The other two were work involving me setting up a broad, basic infrastructure for what would become their sales force in the future. I don't have any problem with that, in fact I was very excited about the idea, but couldn't conceive of it with a base sales salary and nothing else in writing. Even if there were a commission plan in place it would be very difficult to make a living when I could only dedicate a third of my time to actual sales.
The second offer informed me of the income range right off the bat. It was much lower than I was used to, but I liked the company and thought it was positioned well for growth. However, when the offer finally came in, it was the same exact base salary that the other outfit offered and no other income for 10 months. They didn't have a commission structure, it was a quarterly bonus plan that I would not qualify for until January which means no additional money until the end of that quarter. What really bothered me about this was that they misled me to believe that the income range they talked about was going to take effect right away (assuming good performance on my part), not 10 months from now. I did counter offer on this one asking for an additional $6,000 in base considering the delay in any bonus. They didn't budge one inch, not even on the bonus kicking in earlier. They went on to explain that they had researched what other companies were offering and felt this was a solid offer. They even made a crack about how I might not get any other offers period. I felt bullied and manipulated, especially since all of them specifically told me that I was far and beyond the best candidate they had interviewed.
For sales positions, the lack of any structured commission plan is very unusual. I remember thinking that maybe these guys didn't understand sales, couldn't figure out how on earth they both felt that their offers were acceptable, especially for the caliber of person they were looking for.
I would like to ask you what the etiquette is for stating income requirements when submitting a resume. Do I put that on the resume on in the text of an email, etc? Thanks for the help!

[Haver]

Is it even legal for an employer to say "You have to quit school" if the hours don't conflict with scheduled work hours?

Economists are still predicting a 3rd quarter recovery. You have to balance out your immediate needs with how your long term earnings potential will be affected if you take the lowball offer; will it affect future offers if your last position was so poorly compensated? Its been shown that people graduating in the middle of a recession tend to have lower lifetime earnings than those who graduate during normal times, so any setback could have lasting consequences.

[Camden Northsider]

As soon as you said you were in sales I completely understood- your industry is definitely more hit and miss than most and hard to get a feel for the company/ how they operate prior to actually meeting with them.

As for salary requirements, I'd suggest doing your research- although they can save you from some of the situations you've gone through, the other risk you run with stating them are under-shooting yourself (and potentially getting a lower offer than you might otherwise have). If you do use them, I would put them at the bottom of your cover letter, give a range (I think a $5-10K range is pretty standard), but also say that your salary requirements are negotiable based on benefits package, commission plans, etc.- you seem to have a good feel for what a position should or shouldn't pay in base+commission scenarios, so it might be less of a risk for you to list salary requirements on your cover, especially if you are seeking a commissioned role where a large part of your earnings would be based on sales volume. But, I don't have any professional experience in the sales industry (well, not corporate/ commissioned roles anyways), so I may not be the best to be providing advice on this.

This article's somewhat helpful:
Salary Requirements - Providing Salary Requirements

Or maybe just check some of these results out: salary requirements - Google Search

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by Haver

Is it even legal for an employer to say "You have to quit school" if the hours don't conflict with scheduled work hours?

It's highly unorthodox, that's for sure- I'm not sure there are any laws regarding an employer saying this, but if they say it to one person they best be saying it to all applicants going to school....I know an employer couldn't say 'you have to quit alcohol/ drug rehab in order to work here', or 'you have to quit receiving services for your mental illness to work here', etc.- preventing going to school on off-hours seems pretty extreme and in some instances likely could be viewed as discriminatory. But who'd want to work for a company like that anyways? Most reputable/ good companies will put a high value and encouragement on their employees to continue professionally developing even if not related to their position. Might have dodged a bullet with that one, and good choice Shizzy-

[crazyme4878]

Originally Posted by shizzy

I had one place tell me I had to quit school if I wanted to work for them.

Originally Posted by Camden Northsider

It's highly unorthodox, that's for sure- I'm not sure there are any laws regarding an employer saying this, but if they say it to one person they best be saying it to all applicants going to school....But who'd want to work for a company like that anyways? Most reputable/ good companies will put a high value and encouragement on their employees to continue professionally developing even if not related to their position. Might have dodged a bullet with that one, and good choice Shizzy-

I agree. Why would they care, unless they are going to demand a higher workload or work commitment on the levels of a salaried employee while only paying for an hourly employee? I would much rather work in a retail store and volunteer when possible in my field that go into that situation!

[Ottie28]

Believe it or not, with the company that offered me the base with no bonus for 10 months, the owner asked me if I had children in my interview. Not only is that illegal, I thought it was very reckless on his part. And sorry, but if I were a man, he NEVER would have asked that.
I think employers really do believe they have a lot of leverage right now - especially to take chances like that.

[Ottie28]

Originally Posted by Haver

Is it even legal for an employer to say "You have to quit school" if the hours don't conflict with scheduled work hours?

Economists are still predicting a 3rd quarter recovery. You have to balance out your immediate needs with how your long term earnings potential will be affected if you take the lowball offer; will it affect future offers if your last position was so poorly compensated? Its been shown that people graduating in the middle of a recession tend to have lower lifetime earnings than those who graduate during normal times, so any setback could have lasting consequences.

Haver,

That's exactly why I had to walk from both of these offers. Being in sales, I understand I determine what my income is, but if there's no commission plan that theory is completely out of the bag of possibilities.
Apart from that, I don't think it's anyone's business what you do with your personal free time outside of work. It amazes me that anyone would think they could tell someone to quit school.