Thoughts on permit less conceal carry (private schools, college, property)

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by blktoptrvl

I'd have to assume that if this is happening with permitted carrier, it must be the same or worse with those who do not have a permit.

Americans Who Carry Concealed Weapons Keep Accidentally Shooting Themselves in Public Bathrooms - CityLab

Not hearing about it in Arizona, WY, VT, MS or KS anymore than in other shall issue states.

Also about getting arrested I'd be more concerned with false arrest as I'm sure there will be a few deputies and police officers living under a rock not aware of the Jan 1st changes to Missouri law even though it's all over the news. Those people will be able to sue and get some $$$ out of it to buy better guns with.

Missouri already has a lot of people packing legally. In august 2013 before the DOR of revenue stopped issuing the ccw permits due to the law changing it because Nixon handed the ccw list over, I think there was around 170,000 Missouri concealed carry permits. However that doesn't include the thousands of other people in Missouri who opt for out of state permits such as Arizona, Florida, or Virginia. A lot of people in Missouri the last few years have been getting Arizona permits because it's very simple to get and cost around $60 and quick turnaround time.

I'd say probably right now in Missouri if you include people who carry on out of state permits and Missouri permits combined is probably around 240,000 or more.

Here in FL we have over one million but our population is a lot higher, and here in Florida us Floridian's are not allowed to use out of state permits like Missourian's can. I must use my Florida permit. As a Floridian, FL doesn't recognize my Arizona or Virginia permit which sucks because if for some reason there was a delay and my Florida renewal or something I'd be SOL. Unlike Missouri had two backup permits to use.

I hate our gun laws here in FL. A lot more restrictive than Missouri!

[blktoptrvl]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

Not hearing about it in Arizona, WY, VT, MS or KS anymore than in other shall issue states.

Of course you aren't hearing about it. You have to remove you self imposed deaf and blindness to hear or see these things. You say it is happening no more than other states... reports seem to say it is happening a lot in those other states - so those states you list as "anymore than in other shall issue states" probably have an equally high number of accidental discharges. Certainly many more than the "it doesn't happen here" line would allow.

10 Arizonans Killed in "Accidental" Shootings So Far This Year | Phoenix New Times

If you are going to make statements about how safe or unsafe, how negligent or responsible an area is - don't just accidentally shoot from the hip (as you are pulling up your pants) - at least be honest about your claims regarding the numbers of shootings. "Hearing about it" is not the same as researching it. The chart in the article I posted speaks of the numbers killed. Wouldn't you think the numbers of simple discharges is much higher?

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by blktoptrvl

Of course you aren't hearing about it. You have to remove you self imposed deaf and blindness to hear or see these things. You say it is happening no more than other states... reports seem to say it is happening a lot in those other states - so those states you list as "anymore than in other shall issue states" probably have an equally high number of accidental discharges. Certainly many more than the "it doesn't happen here" line would allow.

10 Arizonans Killed in "Accidental" Shootings So Far This Year | Phoenix New Times

If you are going to make statements about how safe or unsafe, how negligent or responsible an area is - don't just accidentally shoot from the hip (as you are pulling up your pants) - at least be honest about your claims regarding the numbers of shootings. "Hearing about it" is not the same as researching it. The chart in the article I posted speaks of the numbers killed. Wouldn't you think the numbers of simple discharges is much higher?

Even 10 accidental shootings isn't very many. How many people are injured or killed in AZ from drunk driving? Why not require people to take a class and then apply for a permit to be allowed to purchase and drink beer?

[blktoptrvl]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

Even 10 accidental shootings isn't very many. How many people are injured or killed in AZ from drunk driving? Why not require people to take a class and then apply for a permit to be allowed to purchase and drink beer?

Please stop trying to change the subject. The other poster and you stated that you do not observe accidental shootings in the areas specified. I corrected that errant statement.

[Floorist]

Be careful

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by Floorist

Be careful

True! Basically permit less carry in Missouri is similar to our law here in Florida WITH A permit! Here in Florida even with a permit carrying into places such as a college, stadium or police station WILL get you arrested for a crime here in Florida versus Missouri you will get just a citation for it if you have a permit.

This legislative session gun free zones such as schools, stadiums and mass transit will hopefully get the ax and is one of the goals this session to get rid of gun free zones. It will probably be someone like Jered Taylor introducing the bills since Burlison was term limited out.

[MOforthewin]

I wonder how people in northern Arkansas, NE Oklahoma, and KY, TN, IL who leave near the state line feel about people can carry concealed over in Missouri without a permit, but need permission to just a couple miles away? No word yet about if AR, OK, TN will. Last year unlicensed open carry failed to pass in Oklahoma so I doubt unlicensed conceal carry will pass there for awhile. In TN on the TN gun forums people say this wont pass in TN because the state of TN likes getting the money from CCW permits.

Good thing about the Missouri law even before was people can simply apply for a cheap AZ permit via the mail that's easier and use that in Missouri since MO honors all permits.

At least one MO state rep will be introducing a bill in the House to repeal many of the gun free zones such as colleges, mass transit etc. I think campus carry will pass this year in MO and Greitens will sign it into law or simply ignore it and let it become law automatically.

MO will be like in the top 3 or 4 for gun laws after this.

[Floorist]

I am taking classes at a community college that is out of town, away from everything. They don't allow guns, they have no security doors and the evening janitor/security guard is unarmed. If a "crazy" walked in the font door, one shot would take out the only person in the office and no one in the classrooms would hear it, they are on a different floor. They could kill 100 people with no opposition.

[Dd714]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

I wonder how people in northern Arkansas, NE Oklahoma, and KY, TN, IL who leave near the state line feel about people can carry concealed over in Missouri without a permit, but need permission to just a couple miles away? No word yet about if AR, OK, TN will. Last year unlicensed open carry failed to pass in Oklahoma so I doubt unlicensed conceal carry will pass there for awhile. In TN on the TN gun forums people say this wont pass in TN because the state of TN likes getting the money from CCW permits.

MS has constitutional carry now, TN requires a permit. I live 5 miles from the border of Stateline/Memphis. No big deal - MS also still issues a carry permit, I had that when they passed the law to allow CC and continue to maintain that permit. You get that, and you have the reciprocity agreement on the carry permit between 35 or 36 states. So for those that expect to frequently cross state line - just get the permit.

But it being Memphis, every criminal gangbanger in town is illegally carrying anyways.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by Floorist

I am taking classes at a community college that is out of town, away from everything. They don't allow guns, they have no security doors and the evening janitor/security guard is unarmed. If a "crazy" walked in the font door, one shot would take out the only person in the office and no one in the classrooms would hear it, they are on a different floor. They could kill 100 people with no opposition.

Well if campus carry passes this spring, then this fall you will probably be able to carry.

However private colleges will likely still post their buildings and have it against the rules as a private business they could legally do that.

In Texas it's the same say. None of the private colleges in Texas have allowed carry since Texas passed campus carry, only the public colleges allow it.

However in Missouri if you currently have a permit it isn't a criminal offense to carry anyway. They can just give you a citation if caught. However after a number or citations you can lose your MO permit. If you have an out of state permit they probably can't do anything then.

My university in St. Louis was private and the security was a farce. They carried no firearms. Bunch of jokers.