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A good helping of hush puppies and fried catfish sounds just wonderful right now! My wife and I don't eat out much over here, but even so, I haven't found a place that serves hush puppies at all. Maybe fried catfish perhaps. San Francisco has such a reputation for good dining, but I don't even know if you can find a restaurant that serves hush puppies even there. Even if there were, I'd rather eat out back there. Or up in California's Gold Country around Sutter Creek and Angels Camp!
In California, if you play an old Lynyrd Skynyrd album, even if you're way down in Orange County, you really stick out from the crowd. Same thing if you play Kentucky HeadHunters music! Most of Missouri culture seems a whole lot more Southern to me than it is anywhere in California.
A good helping of hush puppies and fried catfish sounds just wonderful right now! My wife and I don't eat out much over here, but even so, I haven't found a place that serves hush puppies at all. Maybe fried catfish perhaps. San Francisco has such a reputation for good dining, but I don't even know if you can find a restaurant that serves hush puppies even there. Even if there were, I'd rather eat out back there. Or up in California's Gold Country around Sutter Creek and Angels Camp!
In California, if you play an old Lynyrd Skynyrd album, even if you're way down in Orange County, you really stick out from the crowd. Same thing if you play Kentucky HeadHunters music! Most of Missouri culture seems a whole lot more Southern to me than it is anywhere in California.
I agree there, but California and most of the West are not influenced at all by any Southern culture. In fact if you want me to be fully honest, most of the whole Midwest feels a lot more Southern to me than the west does when you talk about culture. Missouri is influenced by Southern culture, but so are Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio...one need only look at country music, the Bible Belt influence in parts of these states, as well as the way some people have a slight Southern twist to the way they speak. The Midwest is far more influenced by Southern culture than the West is. Missouri is also much closer to the South than California is.
I certainly don't deny that Missouri is midwestern in every sense, just that it has lots of outside influences, from every direction.
The strongest influence seems to be from the south. This is just my observation. I was in the central part of the state this past weekend, around Marshall and Moberly, and heard southern twang everywhere we stopped. It wasn't the only dialect, no, but it was prevalent. The overall culture seemed midwestern, though.
I'm not familiar with Joplin. What I was thinking of was the areas from Springfield, eastward. I spend quite a bit of time in south-central Missouri, and it doesn't seem drastically different, if at all, from Arkansas.
I've lived in four different southern states, and Missouri isn't a big adjustment from those. It is different in many ways, I'll admit. Otherwise, I would have no desire to live here. I like Missouri much better.
St. Louis seems to be the most different of any place in MO from the south. It is definitely eastern, or northern... Kansas City has a very strong southern influence, though. There is plenty of northern influence here, but we have entire suburbs populated with ex-southerners. Not saying it's bad, one way or the other, but it's what I've picked up on during the few years I've been here.
I agree that Missouri isn't the only state like this, it's just the only one I've lived in that's so varied. That's why it fascinates me. The others were solidly in the south or southwest.
That I agree with. East of Springfield I agree Missouri is pretty southern, not much different from Northern Arkansas. Kansas City is definitely a Midwestern city in my opinion, although I agree it does have some Southern influence to it. I know of the so-called twang that you speak of...I just don't think that it's the same accent as the South...it is more country than anything...it sounds more like the rural Lower Midwest than the South. My grandmother spoke with this accent (she was raised in Mexico, Missouri) and she lived in Louisiana the whole time I was alive. She sounded far more like me than people there, her accent was still pretty flat. I agree that rural Missouri people speak with somewhat of a twang, but it's just not enough for me to say that it's a Southern accent because it sounds a lot more like a Midwestern accent than a Southern one. It's still overall pretty flat, much flatter than Kentucky, Tennessee, or Virginia. It sounds like an accent you would find in the Southern Midwest. That accent has some Southern influence to it, I know it because I've heard it plenty of times in Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio. Missouri is more prone to it because it is slightly further south than these three states, but it's still in the Southern Midwest.
Actually, Missouri had two competing state governments for awhile, the "real" one, which did not secede in Jefferson City, and a competing government established in Neosho during the Civil War which favored secession. Both claimed to be the legitimate government of the state of Missouri. Missouri was a border state, like Kentucky or Maryland, which did not secede but did have slaves. I believe as far as troops went, Missouri sent more to the Union than the Confederacy, but some definitely did fight for the South during the war.
You are 100% right about slavery in Missouri. Missouri had some slaves, but was nothing like counties in Mississippi or Alabama where 70% of the population was composed of slaves. Most slaves in Missouri were kept by a household for chores, cooking, ect, and generally not used for agriculture. Missouri just wasn't developed enough agriculturally at the time, and lacked the type of land, to make having large numbers of slaves needed at all.
As far as the poster who commented on northern Missouri being like Tennessee....wow, have you ever been to Tennessee? The accent and culture are completely different than northern Missouri. The Ozarks are more like Tennessee than northern Missouri, but still VERY different in terms of accent, culture, ect. I was raised deep in the Ozarks and still feel like a Yankee when I visit Tennessee, and even more so in Mississippi, Louisiana, or Alabama (on another note I feel like a Yankee in rural Texas, but not in Austin). Missouri has some southern influences, yes, but it is not the south.
On another note, Oklahoma is even more difficult to classify than Missouri. What is it? The Midwest, South, Southwest, or the West? It has influences and geography resembling all of those places!
This is an interesting thread. I've been to Missouri quite a bit and think it is a great state....my family and I really like the Ozarks/Branson area. From my experience, it would be only this area that would have any obvious southern leanings.
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On another note, Oklahoma is even more difficult to classify than Missouri. What is it? The Midwest, South, Southwest, or the West? It has influences and geography resembling all of those places!
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As for Oklahoma I would say it has more a "southwestern" as in SOUTH-west feel to it. It certainly is not the Deep South, but very similar to Arkansas (at least the central to west portion of the state), northern Louisiana, and Texas. I've been to the majority of tried & true Midwestern states and Oklahoma doesn't resemble these states in overall culture. IMHO wikipedia does a pretty good job of showing where OkieVille lies in terms of regional/cultural designation: West South Central States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Growing up in Oklahoma we were always taught that Oklahoma was a southwestern state with strong southern culture.
You go to one small town in a state and judge the entire state from it? That's ridiculous.
I completely agree with you! Could I ask you which post you were referring to? I must be overlooking it. Now if we were talking about Rhode Island or something, that would be different. But you can't even judge New Jersey just by going to Camden or Jersey City and nowhere else!
I think Southern Missouri tends to be more "Southern". Once you go north a couple of hours, I don't think of it as "Southern" at all. I lived in KC most of my life, until my mo decided to relocate us to SW MO (Shell Knob). For only going a couple hours south, things sure are different. Any when I go to KC, my friends and family say I have a definite accent. As much as I have tried to NOT have an accent, I guess it grows on you. Missouri is like two completely different states. The Northern part is so different from the South.
That I agree with. East of Springfield I agree Missouri is pretty southern, not much different from Northern Arkansas. Kansas City is definitely a Midwestern city in my opinion, although I agree it does have some Southern influence to it. I know of the so-called twang that you speak of...I just don't think that it's the same accent as the South...it is more country than anything...it sounds more like the rural Lower Midwest than the South. My grandmother spoke with this accent (she was raised in Mexico, Missouri) and she lived in Louisiana the whole time I was alive. She sounded far more like me than people there, her accent was still pretty flat. I agree that rural Missouri people speak with somewhat of a twang, but it's just not enough for me to say that it's a Southern accent because it sounds a lot more like a Midwestern accent than a Southern one. It's still overall pretty flat, much flatter than Kentucky, Tennessee, or Virginia. It sounds like an accent you would find in the Southern Midwest. That accent has some Southern influence to it, I know it because I've heard it plenty of times in Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio. Missouri is more prone to it because it is slightly further south than these three states, but it's still in the Southern Midwest.
There definitely is a twang in rural Missouri, but I agree that it isn't a southern accent. I think the correct term is a "Midwestern drawl", and you'll find people in Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and all over the southern Midwest who speak that way. But compared to a southern accent from somewhere like Alabama or Louisiana, they are very different (although they might sound similiar if you aren't familiar with either). I somehow lack an accent after growing up in the Ozarks, but I did pick up the dialect, and say things like "reckon", "howdy", "crawdad", and even "ain't" fairly often.
I'm originally from a small town about 90 miles east of Springfield (and actually back right now visiting....it is so nice to be back in Missouri!). It is a lot like northern Arkansas to some degree, but compared to the rest of Arkansas or the deeper portions of the south its totally different. Different accent, the economy is based on cattle and logging, tea isn't assumed to be sweet, grits aren't that common, and the demographics are much different (most counties in the Ozarks are 95% white, if not higher). It is more southern than northern Missouri, but not the south.
Also...I really don't consider KC to be southern at all. It is a Midwestern city, plain and simple.
A good helping of hush puppies and fried catfish sounds just wonderful right now! My wife and I don't eat out much over here, but even so, I haven't found a place that serves hush puppies at all. Maybe fried catfish perhaps. San Francisco has such a reputation for good dining, but I don't even know if you can find a restaurant that serves hush puppies even there. Even if there were, I'd rather eat out back there. Or up in California's Gold Country around Sutter Creek and Angels Camp!
In California, if you play an old Lynyrd Skynyrd album, even if you're way down in Orange County, you really stick out from the crowd. Same thing if you play Kentucky HeadHunters music! Most of Missouri culture seems a whole lot more Southern to me than it is anywhere in California.
In Sacramento there's a BBQ restaurant, Sandra Dee's, that serves both catfish and hush puppies. It's been open about three or four years and is at 15th and F.
That being said, my wife and I are contemplating moving from here (a block and a half from the restaurant) to Missouri when I retire in less than a year. When y'all figure out whether it's midwestern or southern would you let me know?
In Sacramento there's a BBQ restaurant, Sandra Dee's, that serves both catfish and hush puppies. It's been open about three or four years and is at 15th and F.
That being said, my wife and I are contemplating moving from here (a block and a half from the restaurant) to Missouri when I retire in less than a year. When y'all figure out whether it's midwestern or southern would you let me know?
It's classified as Midwestern, and most of it I think has more in common with the Midwest than the South. Most of Southern Missouri is a lot like Southern Illinois and Southern Indiana in that it is the area where the midwest-south transition occurs. Kansas City, Columbia, Jefferson City, and St. Louis and cities to the north are all solidly Midwestern. Rolla, Springfield, and Joplin are basically a lot like Carbondale, Illinois and Evansville, Indiana...to me they are on the very southern edges of the Midwest with strong Southern influence.
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Hush Puppies!
