Questions on utility costs (Great Falls, Geraldine: car registration, insurance, appliances)
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As far as dirtbikes, we are very aware that we are coming in as dreaded Californians and are not looking to upset the locals ( human or animal ). I guess my husband is thinking that the area around Butte looks wide open and he wouldn't bother anyone. Personally, I like the more mountainous, pine tree areas. But in the end finances will probably decide for us.
Speaking of which, we have never lived anywhere that doesn't have public sewer and water, and natural gas for heating.
Could anyone from any area of Montana give me an idea of average costs for filling a propane tank and how many times a year do you generally need to fill up? Also, maintenance on septic tanks and pumping. How often and what are the average costs? I really have no idea. We just don't have propane and septics in So. Cal.
I really appreciate any help from any one. We're trying to get an idea of cost of living up there. As an example, in a 1400 sq. ft. condo we spend about $160 a month for gas and electric and $150 a month for phone, cable, and internet. But our water is included in the rent. Are we going to be looking at shockingly higher expenses every month? Winter?
Butte is known as the REFRIGERATOR of Montana. Believe it. If you adore frigid weather, Butte is for you. Hey, I was there in June visiting our son who goes to school at Montana Tech. It is lovely. It is sort of like Bisbee, Az - ever been there? The town is full of fiercely proud Irish heritage people - the annual HUGE festival An Ri Rah is actually going on this weekend. There is an environmental problem with the pit - which you need to read about if you really wish to take your kids to Butte. It is growing BECAUSE people who want very much to move to Montana find its about the only affordable real estate left. You can get a home for under $100,000. Old Butte is built over the old mines - so you have to be careful about the radon gas. (Our son lives in a restored Victorian building in that area, so we know.) However, realtors will say its not a problem unless you have small children. The newer part of Butte - with WalMart, K-Mart, lots of shopping, etc. is very nice with still affordable homes. There is one hospital. Missoula is an hour and a half drive away with absolutely everything you might want. Butte, I thought, is lovely.
Kabb - According to my son,there are plenty of California transplants who now business owners in Butte and they have been welcomed. Believe me, the town has suffered financally and they are glad to get new people who will help the town grow and prosper. Butte gas prices yesterday (from my son) was about $3.46. Cost of living in Butte is dirt cheap compared to most places. My son pays $350 for the LOVELIEST, cleanest, nicest very large apartment. He could never do that in Texas.
Thank you so much for your replies. Very interesting information. By the time we move we'll most likely only have one child at home and she'll be 16 or 17.
We'd really like to be on the outskirts of anyplace we move to, as we've been living in a condo for 12 years and are tired of having people right on top of us all the time.
As far as the frigid weather, I don't know. I'm perfectly ready to be tough and live in the snow, but the "refrigerator" of Montana might be a bit extreme . My aunt and uncle live in Hamilton and they love it. We've never visited them in the winter, though. They say it's not bad at all.
Like I said before, we're going to visit every place of interest and then make a decision based on how much we like the area and more importantly, if can we afford it.
My cousin's son starts at Montana Tech this fall. Do they have dorms or does everyone live off campus?
I asked this on my Butte thread, but didn't get any replies, so I thought I'd start a new thread. Any info. would be greatly appreciated! :
We have never lived anywhere that doesn't have public sewer and water, and natural gas for heating.
Could anyone from any area of Montana give me an idea of average costs for filling a propane tank and how many times a year do you generally need to fill up? Also, maintenance on septic tanks and pumping. How often and what are the average costs? I really have no idea. We just don't have propane and septics in So. Cal.
I really appreciate any help from anyone. We're trying to get an idea of cost of living up there. As an example, in a 1400 sq. ft. condo we spend about $160 a month for gas and electric and $150 a month for phone, cable, and internet. But our water is included in the rent, so I don't know what it is. Are we going to be looking at shockingly higher expenses every month? Winter?
Could you give me an idea of heating with electricity vs. propane? Which is more? I heard the electric prices in Montana are high. Does anyone use a wood stove? And how does that work? Cost for supplies for the winter?
Please don't laugh, but if you have your own well, does that mean you don't have to pay for water? I have so much to learn.
Thanks in advance to everyone for patiently answering my questions.
I asked this on my Butte thread, but didn't get any replies, so I thought I'd start a new thread. Any info. would be greatly appreciated! :
We have never lived anywhere that doesn't have public sewer and water, and natural gas for heating.
Could anyone from any area of Montana give me an idea of average costs for filling a propane tank and how many times a year do you generally need to fill up? Also, maintenance on septic tanks and pumping. How often and what are the average costs? I really have no idea. We just don't have propane and septics in So. Cal.
I really appreciate any help from anyone. We're trying to get an idea of cost of living up there. As an example, in a 1400 sq. ft. condo we spend about $160 a month for gas and electric and $150 a month for phone, cable, and internet. But our water is included in the rent, so I don't know what it is. Are we going to be looking at shockingly higher expenses every month? Winter?
Could you give me an idea of heating with electricity vs. propane? Which is more? I heard the electric prices in Montana are high. Does anyone use a wood stove? And how does that work? Cost for supplies for the winter?
Please don't laugh, but if you have your own well, does that mean you don't have to pay for water? I have so much to learn.
Thanks in advance to everyone for patiently answering my questions.
Propane--depends on what size tank you have, where you live (propane prices vary), and more. How much propane you use will determine how often you need it filled. How much you use depends on what you use propane for. Stove? Heat? Refrigerator? All these and more? If for heat, it's like any heat energy source--if you keep your thermostats high in winter, you'll use more propane just like you'd use more gas. So there's no direct answer to your question. Propane, at least this year still, remains less costly per gallon than gasoline, but it keeps going up as well.
Do websearching to find comparisons of different heat sources for home heat. There's a lot of information online.
Yes, some people use wood stoves. Then you either need to cut your own wood or buy it. Cost depends on who you buy it from, what type of wood you get, whether it is cut to size and you have it stacked, and so on. Again, no overall correct answers are possible.
You will pay more for heat here than in S. Cal. regardless of heat source because winters are colder here than in S. Cal. Look for the best insulated house you can find, and keep thermostats low (sweaters, sweatshirts, etc. can keep you warm), and you'll spend significantly less, but still more than in S. Cal. However, you probably won't need AC in summer--though different parts of Montana have very different climates/weather.
Septic maintenance--minimal unless you jam things down the toilet you shouldn't. Pumping--depends on how often you use the toilets and other things that send gray water down the septic, and how many people use it. Generally garbage disposals are NOT recommended with septics (send lots of water and other crud into the tank), for example. Clothes washer used water also goes into them. So lots of factors are involved. Also pumping costs depend on where you live. Generally you probably won't have the septic pumped more than every several years, but depending on your usage, you may have it pumped even less than that.
Yes, if you have a well, you don't pay for your water. However, if your pump goes bad you pay to have that replaced, and you should have your water tested every year or so. You do, however, pay for the electricity to run the well pump (unless solar or wind, in which case you paid for the initial set-up and for any maintenance/repairs on the system).
Not sure where you're looking, but many, many homes in Montana are fully on-the-grid (public phone/electric/water/sewer utilities). Some are partially off (e.g., own well and septic, but power and phone lines), while others are fully off. If you're unsure of living with septic, well, etc., perhaps you should look for a fully on-the-grid home.
If you're looking in a specific area, go online and find yellow pages (through yahoo or other site) and call septic folks, propane companies, and so on. They'll be able to answer your questions much better than people on this list can.
We won't laugh- those are questions that you need to know. Yes, utilities out here are high- usually because the towns are smaller, and you have the cost of the companies trying to make it worth putting in the lines. And some of the utilities are co-op, which ae even higher. I used to have a wood stove- wood is ridiculously expensive. I now heat with a pellet stove- still pretty expensive, a ton of pellets is $150.00 On a cold day, if you are home, you will use two bags, sometimes more in a 24 hour period. My home is earthbound and very insulated 1500sf Propane is more expensive- I don't know the cost per pound right now, but i'll try to remember to call tomorrow. A heating bill for a 1500sf home may be $200 for a well insulated home to $400 for a not so well insulated one, per month, November to May. I don't know about water, as I have a well. I am up in Butte often to see a friend- it is a dirty town, with not much to do as far as entertainment. You must be quite content to be outside. As far college, there is a small university. Nice homes are hard to come by, as I have been looking with my friend- there seems to be mostly old shabby rentals for students. Jobs are almost none- existant. What do you do for a living; are you sure you don't want to look at a nicer area?
Thank you for your reply. I appreciate everyone who takes the time to help people they don't even know. Just goes to show there are lots of good people out there.
I know utility costs are going to be quite a bit higher for us. We live in a place where we only run the furnace about a month total out of the winter. Mostly we just put on sweats and socks if we get cold (which is a relevant term I know ) Our cold is not cold by Montana standards. Of course I know a lot of people who run their heaters all winter long. I'm hoping to make sure we get some place well insulated.
As far as Butte, like I say, my husband likes the idea of Butte based solely on what he's seen online. Maybe in person he won't like it so much. Right now we're just looking for a starting point. An area where we can rent a place to get a feel for the job situation, cost of living, etc. Then we can do better research and settle in a place where we want to stay. Hopefully buy a house.
I'm really in love with the Bitterroot valley where my aunt and uncle live. So we'll just have to see what happens.
All I know is, any place in Montana has got to be better than southern Orange County. Yesterday it took me 45 minutes to get home from work. I work 7 miles from home. This is very common during the summer on Saturdays
and every Friday afternoon. So we have Labor Day this weekend and the town will be gridlocked. We basically just stay home rather than fight traffic and all the insane road rage drivers. I hope to call all you Montana folks "neighbor" within a year!
Thought I'd add a few more items for cost comparison, if anyone would help me out.
Car registration for my 2003 Volkswagen Passat wagon this year $189.00 No smog cert. yet, I just bought it in April 2005.
My husband's 1991 F250 4x4 is $99.00, plus smog cert. which is about $50.00
Gas is down right now- Diesel $3.19 Gas $3.29 , $3.39 , and $3.49 depending on the octane. $3.29 is regular unleaded.
Rent is $1600 a month for 1400 SF condo., and that is cheap! It's only because we've lived here so long that they haven't raised it higher. We're hoping to be out of here before they raise the rent or sell the place. There's
no way we'd find another place in this area we could afford that would allow our animals.
Sales tax in our county is 7.75% for everything but food items. Snacks and sodas are taxed.
Car insurance runs about $1100.00 a year for my financed passat(full coverage) and our two paid for trucks 91 ford and 92 Mazda (liability and uninsured motorist only- required in Calif.)
And most importantly to my daughter, it costs $85 (going up next year) to adopt a pet from a shelter. I promised her when we have a yard she can adopt another dog.
If anyone would do a cost comparison for me, I'd sure appreciate it. I think we should rent as cheap as possible til we get an idea of just what we'll be able to afford. We're not "rich Californians". Thanks again, K
Thought I'd add a few more items for cost comparison, if anyone would help me out.
Car registration for my 2003 Volkswagen Passat wagon this year $189.00 No smog cert. yet, I just bought it in April 2005.
My husband's 1991 F250 4x4 is $99.00, plus smog cert. which is about $50.00
Gas is down right now- Diesel $3.19 Gas $3.29 , $3.39 , and $3.49 depending on the octane. $3.29 is regular unleaded.
Rent is $1600 a month for 1400 SF condo., and that is cheap! It's only because we've lived here so long that they haven't raised it higher. We're hoping to be out of here before they raise the rent or sell the place. There's
no way we'd find another place in this area we could afford that would allow our animals.
Sales tax in our county is 7.75% for everything but food items. Snacks and sodas are taxed.
Car insurance runs about $1100.00 a year for my financed passat(full coverage) and our two paid for trucks 91 ford and 92 Mazda (liability and uninsured motorist only- required in Calif.)
And most importantly to my daughter, it costs $85 (going up next year) to adopt a pet from a shelter. I promised her when we have a yard she can adopt another dog.
If anyone would do a cost comparison for me, I'd sure appreciate it. I think we should rent as cheap as possible til we get an idea of just what we'll be able to afford. We're not "rich Californians". Thanks again, K
Kabb36, I just filled my 500 gallon propane tank at $1.66 per gallon. I live in the Jefferson Valley near the Jefferson River and between Butte and Bozeman. I have to drive to Butte to do any "major" grocery shopping but there is a local IGA store if I need little things.
My house is about 1400 sq feet and I also have a wood burning stove, but my most expensive winter electric bill last winter was around $120 and that was only for one month. I run a freezer and another refridgerator/freezer, have an electric range and electric heat in the master bedroom and bath, and heat a hot tub and two water heaters that are also electric. The rest of the place is propane or wood heat.
To register my 2002 Jeep Liberty it cost me just under $300 this year. It gets lower each year as the car value depreciates.
My car insurance on the same car costs me around $480 every 6 months.
There is no sales tax but there is state income tax. It is dependent on how much you earn and the top level is 11% for incomes over $80,301.
Rents of course are dependent on where. Rent in Butte is cheap and rent in Bozeman is sky high.
Now as for Butte vs other parts of Montana.....here is my 2 cents worth.
Butte is still very depressed and is still lacking in any big box type stores and has a very limited supply of shopping per se. There is the super Walmart but that's about it besides local mom and pop stores. If you need a large ticket item you have to go to Bozeman for it.
Hamilton is a nice little town and Missoula is within good reach for shopping. If I were choosing between Hamilton and Butte I would chose Hamilton. I guess I don't personally care too much for Butte. The big ugly eye sore on the hillside they refer to as "the richest hill on earth" is seen from everywhere and even though Butte is rich in history it is still a big mining center and is lacking educated and socially and worldly wise people. Bozeman on the other hand has a high percentage of college graduates and has all the amenities and outdoor activities you could want, it is just getting very expensive. Of course, that term is all relative. What you find expensive in CA you would think of as cheap in MT. Housing costs have soared in Bozeman and now the median house price in Bozeman is $349,000 for a regular house with neighbors right up your behind and no land. Now if you move out to where I am, you can find a house on a few acres of land and live in the country, have horses, a big garden etc. and higher quality of life for less than half that cost but you will need to commute to work to Bozeman or Butte as there is nothing here locally. Or better yet, do as I do and be self employed.
I hope that gives you some insight to the area. The winters are long and cold but not too snowy where I am. I-90 is easy access and the roads are well maintained in the winter. Butte gets more snowand is probably 20+ degrees colder than where I am. Bozeman is also colder and gets even more snow than Butte. It is a little higher in elevation.
Both Bozeman and Missoula have good universities. Butte has Montana Tech which is associated with U of M.
Good luck!
P.S. I have my place on the market if anyone is interested......
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. My aunt and uncle live in Hamilton and they love it. We've never visited them in the winter, though. They say it's not bad at all.
Questions on utility costs
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I have so much to learn. 
) Our cold is not cold by Montana standards. Of course I know a lot of people who run their heaters all winter long. I'm hoping to make sure we get some place well insulated.
