Transplants to Montana (Billings, Laurel, Polson: lease, crime, squatters)

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by Montana Griz

.....Hey Ulysses61......
I have read and re-read your post 3 times re your friend's situation and your description of how they did their "home-work" and "preparation" before they made their move to Montana. It is obvious to me that they moved here with "all-of their California-Baggage in tow" and were of the philosphy that: "It's MY-Way or The The-HiWay".... Thank God, The "Hi-Way" won!!!!!

I have "no compassion what-so-ever" for them or anyone who is so close-minded!! IMHO they obviously did not "talk to enough locals"; they did not grasp or get (try) to understand that hunting is a 'way-of-life' to the majority of Montanans who truly appreciate "the out-of-doors" and the necessity of "game Management" and that a controlled and regulated harvest of "huntable" animals is necessary (and mandatory) for a healthy and balanced big game herd. These are the type of ignorant, un-informed, close-minded, "knee-bending Flaming Liberals" that cause many Montanans.... (who truly understand what Montana has to offer)....to harbor and voice their heart-felt distain, dislike and anamosity toward people "of-this-ilk"!

Perhaps if more of their friends, neighbors, employers, city councilmen, legistrators Etc, etc, etc, would "put into practice" some of the "Cowboy Mentality" (to use their own words), that they feel (felt) was in evidence in Montana.......their state would not be in the "Shambles" and be the complete economic disaster that it obviously is.

We as Montanans who love this state and it's way-of-life, do not take kindly to this type of person. And I for one will do all in my power to hasten their departure from this state....if we are unfortunate enough to have allowed them to move here in the first place!!!

Enough said.......time for another EggNog!

Cheers Griz... Nice post.

See folks, even with me coming from Bobcat Country, Griz and I can see eye to eye on some things that are not football related!

It is frustrating for a lot of us who choose to live "with" the land to have a bunch of city dwellers that saw a video of a slaughterhouse or a hunt come out here with their "we gotta stop this" attitude, come to the hills and tell us how to live.. I've changed a couple minds by taking some college kids out backpacking and camping and watching what it's like for an elk to get hit by a pack of coyotes... The comments I got was, "well at least hunters minimize the pain and suffering".. So I hope they took that experience back to their schools and the sierra club.

As for me and my family.. We will harvest and eat what we like, and be responsible about it.. Just has we have done for generations. Anyone who want's to "educate" us on what we are doing wrong needs to fix the cities first, and then come talk to us.

If the poop hits the fan and we lose power or suffer a catastrophe as a nation, they will be the first ones up here asking "us" for help. I bet their opinions of our "backcountry" ways will change pretty darn fast.

[nwbound27]

Is there a concern that Montana has turned into a playground for the wealthy? I don't know how property values can be so inflated, when the economy is so bad? I hope I don't make anybody mad, just trying to understand.

[Ulysses61]

Well, my colleagues who attempted to retire to Kalispel were not as liberal as Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid, thank God.

Their liberalism was more a way of life (both vegetarian and as I said, bitterly anti-hunting). I have no problem with an anti-hunting mentality. However, if you feel this way, move to Manhattan, San Francisco or someplace where hunting is not only impractical but impossible. And if you move to a state where hunting is a way of life, respect this and keep your views silent.

I remember them telling me in email shortly after moving to MT that they were invited over to a neighbors home for dinner. I thought this was great that a neighbor invited these newcomers for a meal. Instead, my colleagues found a moose head mounted in the hallway and threw a hissy fit about it and grumbled about the "inhumanity" of it throughout the meal.

No wonder they were persona non grata in their new neighborhood after this meal. If a neighbor is kind enough to open up the hospitality of their home to you, shut up about a bearskin rug on their floor or whatever mounted moose are on their wall. It's their house, respect it and respect their right to live the way they want to live in their OWN state.

Please don't think all Californians are like my liberal colleagues. If I moved to Montana as a native Californian, I would try really hard to assimilate, be open and friendly, and most of all, respect the rights of my neighbors. Live and let live!

[flyingcat2k]

Originally Posted by nwbound27

Is there a concern that Montana has turned into a playground for the wealthy? I don't know how property values can be so inflated, when the economy is so bad? I hope I don't make anybody mad, just trying to understand.

Property values are inflated on both sides of Montana for different reasons. Californians and other overly rich (and largely ignorant) out of staters have driven up land prices in Western Montana. What makes people mad is that landowners who have owned the land for years and often generations, are forced to sell to pay the property taxes or inheritance taxes to land developers who subdivide it to cater to California or Texan tastes and bring in more out of staters.

Property values in Eastern Montana have been driven up by ranchers and farmers being driven out of the Rocky Mountain front east. The only defense that Eastern Montana landowners have is mineral rights (ie. oil) to pay the taxes and fiscally defend selling surface land they do not want to sell.

Montana is rapidly turning into the land of the wealthy by stubbornly refusing to grow its economy. The East can make more money on natural resources than the West can make on tourism. If that were to occur, Eastern Montanans could pay the inflated prices in the West and buy our state back from the Californian Pot Smoking Heathen (the average person in Bozangeles now). However, many in the East lived through the busts in the 1970s and 1980s and are afraid to grow the economy. Thus, they play in to the hand of the environmentalist.

The environmentalist will avert paying property taxes again by donating their land to some non-profit (Sierra Club or other such) depriving the State of Montana of property tax revenue and locking land up from being used for resource development. However, the State must defend the reserved land from fires or other natural disasters and waste valuable taxpayer funds defending that which does not generate revenue for the state. Personally, any open space land or land in conservation easements should receive ZERO tax dollars and if it burns to the ground, so be it.

The true story of environmentalism is to prevent resources being used for future generations. They are being preserved. It drives up the prices of allowed resources, which they typically own or control, while forcing future generations to pay them for the privilege of using what is available. It has been used to great "success" in Hawaii where the Bishop family still controls a majority of the land. They lease the land to people but never sell. It is inflationary and promotes poverty. Until land reform started in Latin America, the region was strife with squatters who mistreated resources (they didn't own them) and governments who routinely threw them out of government land who was preserved for officials to use. Until leasing from the Bishop family was common in Hawaii, the territory/state was very poor and heavily dependent on tourism dollars and the military to stay afloat.

The biggest reason out of staters are not liked is that they are preservationists not conservationists. A conservationist allows the use of resources, provided there aren't wasted or wiped out. Early environmental laws did this (Antiquities Act, National Parks, ect.) but recent land laws do not (Wilderness Act, ect.). Earth changes so lets do what we can but realize that people aren't the cause of every catastrophe on the Earth. $&!( happens.

End of rant

[nwbound27]

I'm not sure I follow why environmentalist are the problem with property values being high, but how do the 'powers that be'' get away with keeping them high? Montana is huge and there are less than 1 million people living there, so where is the demand coming from to pay these taxes or whatever fees it takes to keep everything so expensive? Is there alot of corruption higher up?

[flyingcat2k]

If an out of stater comes to Montana and donates land or puts it in a conservation easement, he/she will not pay taxes on that land. The land is also prevented from being developed for economic benefit (housing, logging, oil, ect.) Thus, the amount of available land for economic activity is reduced. The price is driven up for that land because there is less available land to be had.

In supply/demand terms, the supply of available land is reduced and the demand for land is the same or greater (population growth). Thus the price goes up.

[nwbound27]

Do you know the percentage of Montana that is protected from development? I thought Idaho had the largest percentage of land protected, at least I think that is what they advertise, but that still leaves the question of where is the demand coming from if there are less than 1mil people living in MT? NY City has over 8 million people and the whole state of MT less than 1mil. And other states that don't have the natural resources MT has, develop their economy in other ways. It still doesn't make sense to me. So sorry I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand.

[janab]

ID has the most per capita open lands in the lower 48 only next to AK from what I was told a while back. Going back to why the property tax is so high? well if we had less state government employment, I gag at mere mention of a sales tax, and if the good ol boys all the way up to the top would take a normal income we'd have plenty to serve the common man. Greed! We need less government in our lives. As far as Ca mentality..well, that state is so chocked full of liberals and environmentalist groups. Hubby and I grew up through the 50's, 60's in REAL N Ca like north of Reno/ Tahoe/Truckee area and the So Cal mentality had reached that area with their mind sets and money by the late 80's/ early 90's with the moratorium on growth around Tahoe and let me tell you our soft gentle laid back way of life was out the window. Besides AK, ID and MT are the only way of life left. MT is closely following in Ca route, so beware real true at heart MT'ans

[Ulysses61]

Actually, as a Californian, please let me correct this misconception that California is choked full of liberals. In numbers, yes, but only because they live in the large cities. Take a look at this political map of the state. Red, of course represents Republican voting districts, blue are the Dems:

http://www.instablogsimages.com/imag...hLMU_19672.png

As you can see, the vast majority of California is pretty conservative, especially the area north of San Fran. The problem is, population density. All the libs live on the coast, which is indeed liberal, as Janab correctly pointed out.

But vast areas of the state are bed-rock Conservative. The stereotype that all of Californians are clones of Nancy Pelosi is really not accurate. THANK GOD!

[nwbound27]

Thanks so much for the responses. I should have said not just MT, but the west has become a playground for the wealthy and the working person that lives there cannot even buy a decent house on a salary that is above the median for the state.
I don't trust either party and think both are bought and paid for by special interests. Janab, I also think you are right that greed has taken over, but I am hopeful that good people with find a way to take our country back!