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I think this will help with the numbers. It plays in Windows Media Player as well as iTunes, Quicktime, and I am sure most that are mp4 formatted.
I found it very informative, and in the end, shows a positive trend.
I linked it off of :http://ourfactsyourfuture.mt.gov/ if you do not trust the link above. (I would not be insulted. It is always better to use caution online.) You will have to click the Whats New avatar for it to load.
Last edited by gfunkerror; 02-27-2012 at 02:02 PM..
Reason: wee bit more info added.
Location: Approximately 50 miles from Missoula MT/38 yrs full time after 4 yrs part time
2,308 posts, read 4,124,103 times
Reputation: 5025
[quote=flyingcat2k;23163480]Old Trader:
...................................I don't know where you get your lumber but there is not 1 lumber mill operating in Western Montana. The last little bitty one shut down last year. ...............................
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Although I agree with much of your post......................I do have to correct the impression left by your statement above.
There currently are (9) lumber mills operating in Montana, of which approx 4 are considered to be in "western Montana".
The following are two that I have current figures on:
1/.....The TRICON Mill at St Regis employs just a smidgen over 200 people --just in the mill-- and ships out 35 Million+ board feet per year.
2/.....Pyramid Lumber in Seeley Lake employees slightly in excess of 150 people in the mill and ships out approx (60) million board feet per year.
Admittedly it's a "far cry" from when I moved here approx 33 years ago, when there were even several mills right here in the B.R. valley. All the 2x4; 2x6; 2x8; 2x10 amd 2x12 lumber that I needed for my "stick-built" home that I built here in Ravalli County.......I bought All of it from Champion Int'l's mill down at Darby for $175. per thousand board feet!!.......And it was all "high-grade stuff".....not the "crap" that's on the market today.
The only "wood-product" that I needed that didn't come out of MT was the (50) "squares" (5000 sq ft) of Cedar Shakes (3/4 to 5/4 X 24" xtra Heavies) that I got out of Canada.
flyingcat, you are in an area of Montana apparently where there are problems. That is not true for the entire state. You very apparently have no idea of what is actually happening in Eastern Montana.
I have seen people come to Montana from other states lately, and they had no trouble getting jobs if they are qualified to do something. My daughter had a choice 5 years ago to come to Montana in the tech field (IT department which she now heads) with the choice of earning $12,000 more to go to San Jose, or to Montana. As she was raised in San Jose she knew the difference in cost of living she chose Montana. They later raised her to San Jose wages to be sure and keep her. They are having problems finding qualified people in the high tech field.
Her home here is 3,700 sq foot custom built executive home on 5 acres developed for a horse with rail fencing, barn, etc. Cost $300,000. In San Jose area would have cost about $1,500,000 and up. She put half down, and then has paid it off over the last 5 years. She could not have done that in San Jose. Value has increased about 15% since she bought it.
Good well trained tech people have no trouble finding jobs in Montana, or anywhere else. In fact, she gets solicited every month to go to other areas of the country by well known companies. Her former boss, is now overseas, at over $250,000 per year plus some other great benefits--hired away. She has been doing outside consulting by telecommuting for a consulting firm out of Seattle for $125 per hour as they cannot find the right person to work full time and willing to move to Seattle.
Her company would love, to find a qualified person as her #2, but have been unable to find one in 3 years of looking and sometimes have to sue consultants. They hired the best two they could find, and they both proved to be inadequate and had to be let go. Her corporation has had her consulting and and working with employees from their operations in two other countries as they cannot find adequate help in their field any other way.
Last year a company wanted to set up an operation in Billings, that would hire 300 white collar employees at fairly good wages. They advertised for help, and only got 75 applications total most unqualified, and moved on to another state as they cannot find enough employees. This is not the only one that had this problem and did not set up here in Montana.
With the effects on businesses from the Oil and Mining Boom, there is a problem finding qualified employees in all types of businesses in Billings. They just had a conference here, to try to help the businesses to be prepared for the future growth they will have (non oil businesses).
In commercial operations, and many other businesses, you have to plan 5 years ahead to where you will be and start building buildings, etc. and hiring now or soon and start up the business to be ready for the future.
Remember if you start any size business at all, you do not expect to make a profit for 3 to 5 years. You are preparing for the future business, not today's business. I have been in business world my entire life after leaving the Navy in 1952, managed and owned successful businesses, and know how things are done. I even taught Business at a college back in the '60s, but the pay was too low to keep me very long. There is an old saying, "Those that can, do it, and those that really cannot do it teach". They talked me into it at a weak moment, but was making way more money off the teaching job than the teaching job so I got out.
You are trying to make Montana sound bad based on your area of the state, and your own knowledge. It is a state, with a big future if you get out and look at the whole picture.
I'm glad your daughter is doing well but she does not fit the average Montanan. They, on average, do not have after HS training nor college degree nor have advanced tech skills. As a matter of fact, the average Montanan would be considered computer illiterate in some circles as they do not use search engines well do little more than basic word processing. In my opinion, she's a Californian, not a Montanan. All she did was move to the park for rich people and telecommute.
I'm glad you think so much of Eastern Montana. I do too but when I look at the business environment for natural resource development and just business in general, the western half is screwing up and uses the state agencies to start screwing up the eastern half. Eastern Montana isn't textbook scenic as Western Montana so there isn't a tourism trade to fall back on. Eastern Montanans have to make something or provide services to those who do. Just showing people around won't cut it unless you are talking the Bighorn or Smith Rivers. The Bakken play is building economies in South Dakota and Idaho but not much in Montana.
1 is due to the fact that ND is very tough on imports from states that don't have sales tax. They do not want Montana contractors undercutting their contractors as Montana materials are not taxed and moved across the state line. They have a tax that will effectly transfer the sales tax that would have been paid to their treasury (ie. use tax) if you use the item in ND. It is a wash if it was purchased in say SD, where sales tax exists, as ND has to compare the use tax rate vs. the sales tax paid in SD and balance the taxes. If the SD tax is higher, they have to get monies from SD and SD keeps the balance. If the ND tax is higher, they have to collect the tax portion from SD and then tax the owner of the equipment/property/ect on the difference. Doing all that balancing negates any gain to the treasury of ND but if it is from MT, they get the whole portion as the MT goods are not taxed.
2 is the fact that MT's industrial services industry is fairly small and it is cheaper to ship materials from down south (ie. Oklahoma and Texas) than import or start facilities in MT. It wasn't long ago that most welders, linemen and plumbers from MT had to go a long way from home (ie, 1000 miles) to find work. The people that left aren't coming back in large numbers for a number of reasons like being underwater on their home or having kids in local schools where they live now.
3 is the fact that MT has very low income tax brackets where most professional people are paying 10 or 11% in taxes. This can be offset with credits but if you don't have a mortgage or play other such games with the State, you'll pay a much higher real income tax rate than other surrounding states. Again, this creates a park for rich people as they fly in to their vacation home for 2 weeks a year and then leave while paying very little taxes other than property tax, the majority of which goes to the school district not the city or county or state, and some gas taxes.
4 is the fact that the MT portion of the Bakken is sour, or at least the portions being recovered now. The ND portion being drilled now is sweet and light so there is no reason to drill in MT other than for exploration.
There is a part of me that just says for MT to split and leave the Californian mess in the western half behind. The only issue is that it doesn't leave much of a population in the rump state and would probably be better suited to merge with one of the other states like Wyoming.
flyingcat, I'm glad your daughter is doing well but she does not fit the average Montanan. They, on average, do not have after HS training nor college degree nor have advanced tech skills. As a matter of fact, the average Montanan would be considered computer illiterate in some circles as they do not use search engines well do little more than basic word processing. In my opinion, she's a Californian, not a Montanan. All she did was move to the park for rich people and telecommute.
As to the people in Montana being computer illiterate, you are behind the times again. My daughter supplies services to 500+ computer users here in Montana that use computers all day long for her company. And that is just one company. Today, you cannot be a mechanic, unless you are computer literate as cars today are ran by computers. In fact, you cannot even work at McDonald's Restaurants at the counter, without being able to use computers. The whole restaurant from the counter back to the food prep area are connected by computers. Retail stores use computers extensively. You cannot run any business, or even work in most businesses unless you are computer literate. Banks and offices, all run on computers.
Eastern Montana is not a place the rich are settling. It is hard working industrious people. The rich are going to a few mountain resort areas. We do have some here, such as a couple of well known movie stars, etc. living on small ranches near me, etc. They are here as they want to get away from the crowds, of their own kind and relax. Most people do not even recognize them when they see them at the grocery store, or a restaurant and no one invades their privacy.
You really out of touch in what is going on in Eastern Montana at this time. The change is so rapid, that is why they have held conferences here in this area to help business prepare for the future. Unemployment is already low, and on the way down from 2% to under 5% per county. As the post above says, companies are hiring right now and people are not having trouble finding jobs.
One mining company a while back announced they need to fill 200 jobs this year, and these are not cheap jobs as the miners earn $50,000 to $100,000 per year. And that is just one company.
Oil companies, are importing help as there is not enough workers here to even take the starting jobs. One oil company was shown in the newspaper hiring 15 people per week, and training them in Billings before sending them to the job sites which is 75 this year to start, and that number is supposed to grow greatly over the next few months.
There are companies constantly looking into Montana to open operations, and they are holding off coming here as the labor supply is too short.
Remember, Montana is the size of the entire North East with only a million people. There are actually two Montanas. One is the Resort type rich man's environment, and the other is where the normal people live. Resort areas have always been cheap pay and little opportunity for the average person. To try to lump them in with the rest of the state, is the wrong way to look at it.
As to the people in Montana being computer illiterate, you are behind the times again. My daughter supplies services to 500+ computer users here in Montana that use computers all day long for her company.
A generalisation - most of Montana is not wired above dial-up. Newcomers to the Swan and Mission Valleys have trouble with phone service - cells don't work all that well either. It's better in the flatlands of Eastern Mont.
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Eastern Montana is not a place the rich are settling. It is hard working industrious people. The rich are going to a few mountain resort areas. We do have some here, such as a couple of well known movie stars, etc. living on small ranches near me, etc.
Actually, there are more "rich" moving in, breaking up the farms and ranches. I don't suppose Bozeman is considered a mountain resort?
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Unemployment is already low, and on the way down from 2% to under 5% per county.
True with farms, where USDA allows immigrants to work, but has no provision to send them back.
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One mining company a while back announced they need to fill 200 jobs this year, and these are not cheap jobs as the miners earn $50,000 to $100,000 per year. And that is just one company.
Yeah, I know all about that, I worked for one for close to 22 years - and never made more than $55k - working 65 hrs week. You don't get time and half - because there's an exemption specifically for mining, marine and oil companies. It's straight pay or on 12 days off 12 days. Just like on offshore oil rigs.
A generalisation - most of Montana is not wired above dial-up. Newcomers to the Swan and Mission Valleys have trouble with phone service - cells don't work all that well either. It's better in the flatlands of Eastern Mont.
Cell phones, don't work very well in much of the rocky mountain areas, and other areas with sparse population. They don't work because there are no cell towers even in the flatlands of Eastern Montana.
The populated areas of Montana where businesses are thriving, have T1 and better lines, and broadband. They do not have it out in the sticks of Montana, just as there are a lot of areas without it in California and other states. They have good service in Silicon Valley as an example, but try to get it in areas like the Northwest mountain areas of California.
But there is a very viable solution. There are high speed satellite business grade internet services that can go anywhere. Even out to remote oil drilling operations, mining operations, etc. They will also use VOIP telephone services with these systems, as when the internet is very basic dial up, they also normally have poor phone service. Example, oil rigs out in the gulf, are connected to their home offices with satellite systems for the Internet and phones. Soldiers in Iraq, etc., Naval ships at sea, etc., etc., are connected to the Internet by these systems. And using a VOIP account they can call home on the phone to talk to their family. With Skype they can talk to their family for FREE, and not only talk but see a live picture from home and from the field to home. Those service men and women in far away places, can talk to their families over Skype and watch their children grow up even when thousands of miles away all due to satellite Internet systems.
Many R.V.ers have a satellite Internet system aboard.
At this time, the government is working on setting up like they did to spread electricity in rural America and take phones to remote parts of the country, to subsidize wiring the rural areas for Broadband service over the next 5 years at a minimum level to handle VOIP phone systems over the Internet.
Many businesses around the nation, have found that wired Internet systems even though good broadband quality can go down and that hurts business. Many larger businesses, have a satellite backup system so they are never out of touch with the Internet and Telephone world.
Some people are able to do it because their jobs are portable. They can do everything they need to do online. I have a friend who is an electrical engineer - based in NY, living in MT - and getting paid a NY salary to boot.
Others have bottomless money from mom and dad. Lots of that going on in Bozeman especially. Probably Whitefish and Missoula, too.
I have also found that Montana State University, which is a huge employer in the state, tends to not hire its alumni for the better jobs. They are easily impressed by people with degrees from Berkeley, Cornell, etc.
I had to move away from MT to get a job, but I'm hoping to move back once I get enough experience. As you know, it's about as competitive as it gets there!!!
Cell phones, don't work very well in much of the rocky mountain areas, and other areas with sparse population. They don't work because there are no cell towers even in the flatlands of Eastern Montana.
The populated areas of Montana where businesses are thriving, have T1 and better lines, and broadband. They do not have it out in the sticks of Montana, just as there are a lot of areas without it in California and other states. They have good service in Silicon Valley as an example, but try to get it in areas like the Northwest mountain areas of California.
It's not practical, nor is it profitable. Profit determines whether you have good service or not.
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But there is a very viable solution.
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There are high speed satellite business grade internet services that can go anywhere. Even out to remote oil drilling operations, mining operations, etc. And using a VOIP account they can call home on the phone to talk to their family. With Skype they can talk to their family for FREE, and not only talk but see a live picture from home and from the field to home.
I had poor uploads (2Mbps) on sat tels, which are very expensive - obviously the govt doesn't care about costs. I opted for a Majic Jack for $20/yr and VOIP. You can try a broadband service like Sling if you live in a major city.
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.......And it was all "high-grade stuff".....not the "crap" that's on the market today.
