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"I was just wondering if there is anybody on here that lives in Montana and currently homeschools. I'm glad for this victory. We are planning on moving to Helena within the next few months and will be homeschooling. I'm sure the bill presented was an effort to get more money, but it is still concerning. Anybody having any thoughts on this that currently homeschool? I'm NOT looking for anybody to post back to this saying "why do you homeschool, are you sure you should homeschool, etc." I'm just hoping to get a feel from families how Montana as a state is with homeschooling."
oregonreadyfor change,
I don't live in Helena, and although we considered it, we did not homeschool our kids. (My husband is a math teacher, and I am an English teacher; our kids are college graduates now.)
I did run across a website that might help you in your quest for information: http://www.leapingfromthebox.com/hs/elists/montana.html . It mentions a number of homeschooling groups for different cities in Montana, and specific to your search, a homeschooling group in the Helena area that I think is called HALO.
Good luck! I hope you find some people that you can network with.
Last edited by lesliegrace; 03-28-2007 at 09:48 AM..
Reason: Clarity
mthawki -- did you actually read what I wrote? All of it??
This isn't just an off-the-cuff rant. I got to thinking seriously about the issue after pulling a homeschooled kid back from the brink of suicide, and I see the results of another homeschooling right next door every day.
I swear there's a Stupid Gene that gets turned on when people become parents, that makes them forget how much it sucked to be a kid... and homeschooling parents are among the most blind to what they're doing to their own kids.
Would you care to share your background with us and provide a little more evidence to substantiate your extremist views of homeschooling? Former teacher, counselor, card carrying ACLU member? I'd love to hear it.
Claiming that a couple of obviously poor experiences means that ALL homeschooling as evil is one of the worst generalities that I've ever heard.
I'd also like to see what the public school suicide rates are at these days, when compared to homeschooling. With the peer pressure that kids deal with, disfunction that's coming to school from home and other garbage that goes on these days, claiming that kids are better off in that environment is laughable.
This is obviously just leading to a pissing match between opposing views, but when you express alarmist and extremist views, you have to expect it to be countered.
Claiming that homeschooling is child abuse was probably over the top but I do think Reziac made some valid points. I thought I also have made some good points and no one has responded to my remarks. I happened to talk to my sister last night who's a retired Montana teacher and we talked about this subject. She said that in certain remote areas where kids are a very long distance from schools that homeschooling seems to have worked for the first few years and then arrangements were generally made to transport them back and forth to a school. I can accept something like this due to the nature of the situation. There's a few things I see as major problems and first and foremost is the fact that the great majority of these homeschooling parents are not qualified teachers and do not meet the necessary academic standards. I strongly believe that the reason it's being allowed at all is due to the powerful religious lobby that exists in America. If there wasn't a religious element in this issue I am certain that homeschooling would be illegal. I mentioned earlier that I felt the children would be missing out on a normal childhood and that they're going to have to face the real world someday anyway and they should face it with the support of loving parents whose purpose should be to provide guidance not provide their entire education. No one has given me a response to my criticisms.
Homeschooling, like with any other concept, in and of itself, is a good thing.
The trouble starts when folks attempt to twist the concept to fit their own agenda.
Parents who would homeschool their children, because they might learn about the big wide world in general, should never homeschool.... Just because you are afraid of the world, doesn't mean that your kids have to be.
Parents, who have various psycho-social issues, should never be homeschooling their children. (most of these were homeschooled as children)
Parents who want to homeschool, because they feel that it's trendy, or otherwise, in vogue, should never be homeschooling their children.... these should just go buy the latest clothing item or newest car.
Parents who choose to homeschool their children, because they themselves had a rough go of it in public school, should never homeschool... just because you got beat up in school, doesn't mean your kid is going to get beat up too.
Parents who choose to homeschool in order to hide the physical and mental abuse, should never homeschool, or... have kids in the first place.
Parents who choose to homeschool because of religion, shouldn't be homeschooling their children either..... teaching your child to avoid the world isn't going to get "you" into heaven any quicker.
Many who homeschool these days, seem to think that they can teach their kids better than the professionals.
I am neither for, or against homeschooling in Montana, but I do feel that some sort of oversight should exist with regard to it.
I've said it before..... there are any number of stupid people teaching our kids, both at home, and in the public schools. One of the best ways to monitor or otherwise catch these stupid people, is to provide for some kind of oversight....
Public schools already have such protocol in place, but parents do not.
I feel that if a parent wants to homeschool, he or she should be subject to many of the same requirements that public school teachers are.
Of course, any high minded egocentric would never agree with me on this, but then again, egocentrics shouldn't be teaching their own children either.
Home schooling "is not a debate"...... only those with their "own agenda's" can turn something like this into a debate.
I own two very successful companies here in the state, am a whiz at just about anything that comes my way, from communications, to advertising, to book keeping, to public relations, or any other business related endeavor..... but a teacher I am not.... so I won't be giving myself the dubious distinction of attempting to be one.
I was raised up to know how to read and write and do basic math, before I hit the first grade... and, when I think about it..... nothing would have chapped my hide more, than to have to sit and stare at my mother all day long.. Don't get me wrong, I love my mother, but there is a time and a place, and in my younger years, school at home was absolutely not the place, nor was it the time.
There are a lot of smart folks out there, that become stupid real quick when it comes to their kids and homeschooling. Parents, for the most part, choose to homeschool, because it's what they want.... they leave the poor kid out of the equation completely in many cases.
Last edited by GiftShoppeGuy; 03-29-2007 at 08:26 PM..
I teach high school at a public school. I've had the opportunity to be around a number of young people who were home schooled for part or all of their education. I would say about half are very bright and above most of the "public" kids, and the other half are way behind. Much of their success is dependant on the parents (moms) intelligents. You notice I didn't say parents education, I said intelligents.
I suppose the same could be said about the INTELLIGENCE of public school teachers being related to the quality of student's education.
mthawki -- did you actually read what I wrote? All of it??
This isn't just an off-the-cuff rant. I got to thinking seriously about the issue after pulling a homeschooled kid back from the brink of suicide, and I see the results of another homeschooling right next door every day.
I swear there's a Stupid Gene that gets turned on when people become parents, that makes them forget how much it sucked to be a kid... and homeschooling parents are among the most blind to what they're doing to their own kids.
Are you aware of the suicide rates for public school kids? Talk about an ignorant response...you win the prize!
What was it that I was taught at home, by my own Father? Oh yes,
"Better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
I'll probably get hate mail for this but I'm just wondering why anyone would want to school their kids at home. First of all, it seems like all of the social skills and friendships that kids form in typical schools will be missing from home schooled kids. And honestly, how many parents are really qualified to teach school? Probably not many. I get the feeling that alot of this movement is the result of religious influence (notice all of the comments about churches on the thread) and that many parents are afraid of the influence of the other kids and even afraid of the influence of what they're taught. You hear some parents say that they don't want their kids to be taught about certain topics like evolution or they would at least like creationism to be taught as an alternative idea. I'm sorry but that would be like teaching a flat earth as an alternative to a round one, it's complete nonsense. Anyway, I'm really not trying to offend anyone, I'm just curious about this phenomenon and why parents would choose it for their children.
What I am wondering, is how can a guy from Tennessee, be calling himself "Montana Guy"?
And how can you honestly ask such a silly question, and couch it in a pretentious attempt to look magnanimous?!
Many people wish to homeschool their children, because the "social skills" they learn at school are little more than how to succeed at vice! They wish their children to learn more than avarice. To actually become proficient in academic skills. To understand the world as a whole, instead of trying to gain popularity in the false society of the modern educational institution.
They wish for their children to be educated in proper social skills. Skills that reflect a genteel, polite society, instead of the urban gangster society which is common place today. They wish their children to aspire to make friends with other children who are not so ignorant as to wear their pants UNDER their buttocks, and have their underwear hanging out.
Perhaps they wish their children to know and understand the second law of thermodynamics....and to learn how to actually think it through themselves, instead of learning propaganda from a teacher, and regurgitating it on a test?
I wonder how many parents are qualified to be parents?
Homeschooling, like with any other concept, in and of itself, is a good thing.
The trouble starts when folks attempt to twist the concept to fit their own agenda.
Parents who would homeschool their children, because they might learn about the big wide world in general, should never homeschool.... Just because you are afraid of the world, doesn't mean that your kids have to be.
Parents, who have various psycho-social issues, should never be homeschooling their children. (most of these were homeschooled as children)
Parents who want to homeschool, because they feel that it's trendy, or otherwise, in vogue, should never be homeschooling their children.... these should just go buy the latest clothing item or newest car.
Parents who choose to homeschool their children, because they themselves had a rough go of it in public school, should never homeschool... just because you got beat up in school, doesn't mean your kid is going to get beat up too.
Parents who choose to homeschool in order to hide the physical and mental abuse, should never homeschool, or... have kids in the first place.
Parents who choose to homeschool because of religion, shouldn't be homeschooling their children either..... teaching your child to avoid the world isn't going to get "you" into heaven any quicker.
Many who homeschool these days, seem to think that they can teach their kids better than the professionals.
I am neither for, or against homeschooling in Montana, but I do feel that some sort of oversight should exist with regard to it.
I've said it before..... there are any number of stupid people teaching our kids, both at home, and in the public schools. One of the best ways to monitor or otherwise catch these stupid people, is to provide for some kind of oversight....
Public schools already have such protocol in place, but parents do not.
I feel that if a parent wants to homeschool, he or she should be subject to many of the same requirements that public school teachers are.
Of course, any high minded egocentric would never agree with me on this, but then again, egocentrics shouldn't be teaching their own children either.
Home schooling "is not a debate"...... only those with their "own agenda's" can turn something like this into a debate.
I own two very successful companies here in the state, am a whiz at just about anything that comes my way, from communications, to advertising, to book keeping, to public relations, or any other business related endeavor..... but a teacher I am not.... so I won't be giving myself the dubious distinction of attempting to be one.
I was raised up to know how to read and write and do basic math, before I hit the first grade... and, when I think about it..... nothing would have chapped my hide more, than to have to sit and stare at my mother all day long.. Don't get me wrong, I love my mother, but there is a time and a place, and in my younger years, school at home was absolutely not the place, nor was it the time.
There are a lot of smart folks out there, that become stupid real quick when it comes to their kids and homeschooling. Parents, for the most part, choose to homeschool, because it's what they want.... they leave the poor kid out of the equation completely in many cases.
I agree, that there are many smart people out there that become stupid real quick when it comes to the topic of homeschool.
My suggestion to you, as a business man, is to take a look at public education....modern public education, from a business perspective. Take a look at the cost, and the outcome.
Is the outcome worth the cost? Are the services that you are paying for, being done in an effective manner? Are children educated when they graduate? Are they young people who know and understand how their government works? Do they understand geography; do they have higher math skills? Can they spell and write a good report? Are they hard workers, who will be an asset to your business? Do they have people skills, and know how to treat customers? Do they know history? Do they understand the difference between communism and capitalism? Do they know the significance of Peter Salem Or Hyam Solomon to American History? Do they know what the Magna Carta was? Can they balance a checkbook? Do they believe that stealing is wrong? Are they safe at school? What percentage of students are victims of violent crime at school? Are they happy and well adjusted? What percentage are depressed and addicted to drugs? Do they have healthy relationships? What percentage are sexually active; and what percentage have venereal disease?
In short how do they measure up to the rest of the world in education?
If you would take a close look at the answers to these questions, as a businessman, you would not want to continue to invest in this losing endeavor!
Homeschool parents also decided not to risk their progeny....their investment in the future, to such a poorly run, risky business! Like all good parents, they think more of their children's well being, and success as adults, than they do their own convenience and financial gain. Homeschool takes a great deal of time and money. Just as much as a well run business. Check it out, you would be surprised.
Here's my two cents from another post I did a while back. I'm ready for hate mail, too...
I previously worked in the Montana University System in admissions and academic advising. While what I saw was completely anecdotal, the homeschooled students usually did have socialization problems when they tried to enter the college system. Moreover, because we don't have any type of uniform home school accreditation, they had widely varying levels of academic preparedness. Sometimes they were great in math or computers but terrible in another area. It was as though many of them were allowed to focus on primarily those subjects where their interests lay.
We had terrible problems with the parents wanting to accompany students to all appointments, dictating all their course choices, and even following them to the first day of class. The students seemed dazed--like they'd never had an opportunity to make any decisions for themselves. The parents wanted us to bend federal laws about disclosing info their students who were over 18. When they couldn't get where they wanted with us, I'd often see them strongly direct or bully their kids into signing waivers so that they could have access to their adult children's personal info.
Basically, neither the students nor the parents had any socialization from the K-12 system to prepare them for the culture of the higher ed system. Students often still had their moms calling us in the second semester to take care of their personal business for them. College is not just about book learning; it's supposed to be a transition to adulthood. Again, while completely anecdotal, often home school parents were reluctant to let go.
I think homeschooling is a great option for parents with a minimum level of academic preparedness themselves. If Montana is home school friendly, does that mean it has less intrusive laws on homeschooling standards? If so, I probably would not want Montana to be known as friendly to homeschooling. I'd like to see basic minimum levels of academic preparedness for the instructors (usually parents) and standardized exit testing for home school graduates. I think homeschooling is terrific as long as all students in Montana are cared for academically and the system is held accountable, whether that system is private, home school, or public.
Come now. You know good and well that every single objection that you reported for homeschool children, was also true for public educated children!
My 50 year old public educated sister in law STILL has her mother calling to take care of her personal business for her!
Last edited by Gal6one; 01-11-2009 at 09:56 PM..
Reason: spelling
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